A "real" AI War

[TechSY730]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8esGHkuTFl4
(Warning, does contain swearing)




A few questions for the moderators/admins:
Should I cross post in the off topic forums? Should I move to the off topic forums?

[Draco18s]

Oh come now, not even the StarCraft AI Competition?

The Berkley Overmind is sooo much more effective than the AI that shipped.  As in, trounce the shipped AI with mutalisks....to the point of being able to kill a hoard of Archons without losing a single unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeTNFk6XdHk

[TechSY730]

Yea, but does it have guys yelling and swearing about APM in the 1000s?

Yea, I know the Blizzard vanilla AI, while it doesn't suck by any means (especially in HotS), it isn't all that magnificent.

It would be nice if one of the custom AIs for SC2, like the GreenTea AI, could be showcased. It has better macro skills, and has several more "micro tricks" up its sleeve compared to the vanilla SC2 AI.

[Draco18s]

Yea, but does it have guys yelling and swearing about APM in the 1000s?

The Berkley Overmind has an APM that would exceed human capabilities, as it can control 20 mutalisks independently and in real time.

But no, those videos don't have that.

[chemical_art]

Didn't watch the video, but the idea of various AI's attacking each other is not new but very entertaining.

In the Civ II official mod "Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds" there was an informal competition between two modders to make the best AI. They were certainly better then the vanhilla AI, and very fun to fight. My stubborn human spirit caused me to adapt faster to the AI then they could to me though, I savor that attribute as long as I can 

[Coppermantis]

After the semi-recent update to the Starcraft II AI which allowed human allies to suggest build orders and strategies, there was for a little while an AI Wars club where members would do battle only through their AI allies. Not quite the same, but interesting nonetheless.

[zespri]

Hang on, AI for SC:BW I can understand, the game being stand alone and all that. But in SC2 with the always on DRM what kind of AI wars are you talking about? If you try write bots etc, Blizz will shut you down before you can say "bam". (sorry did not have a chance to watch the video yet).

[TechSY730]

Nope. While modifying the "core" files is (still) a big no-no, the types of things you can edit in maps and standalone mod files in a "officially support capacity" is far, FAR greater.

Included in that is AI scripting. In fact, AI scripting has gotten lots more tools (much more behavior is configurable in the scripts, rather than coded into the engine). You can even override for specific units how the AI will try to micro them, and/or use spells, instead of the default management.

So yea, AI scripting now has official tooling from Blizzard for SC2. In fact, there is one such "enhanced AI" project well established for SC2, the GreenTea AI.

[Coppermantis]

Yeah, the galaxy editor (which includes a scripting language similar to C++, if I recall correctly) allows you to do all sorts of cool stuff withing the bounds of the EULA. Somehow employing one of these AIs in an actual game will get you banned for sure, but writing one for independent use is just fine.

[TechSY730]

Yeah, the galaxy editor (which includes a scripting language similar to C++, if I recall correctly) allows you to do all sorts of cool stuff withing the bounds of the EULA. Somehow employing one of these AIs in an actual game will get you banned for sure, but writing one for independent use is just fine.

By actual game, that would mean any of the "matchmaking" modes. Especially ladder.

For custom games and arcade games, yea, feel free to go crazy with those scripts and triggers.

[KDR_11k]

The Berkley Overmind is sooo much more effective than the AI that shipped.  As in, trounce the shipped AI with mutalisks....to the point of being able to kill a hoard of Archons without losing a single unit.

I'm guessing Blizz could have done that with their AI but remember that the goal of game AI is not to be the strongest but fun and realistic to play against. Since a human opponent wouldn't be able to pull that off a game AI shouldn't do it either as its goal is to emulate playing against a human.

Similar to how you CAN write an FPS bot that will headshot everything on the first frame with a clear line of fire but it's more useful to find ways to make the AI be inaccurate in a realistic way and have perception weaknesses and whatnot.

[LaughingThesaurus]

The Berkley Overmind is sooo much more effective than the AI that shipped.  As in, trounce the shipped AI with mutalisks....to the point of being able to kill a hoard of Archons without losing a single unit.

I'm guessing Blizz could have done that with their AI but remember that the goal of game AI is not to be the strongest but fun and realistic to play against. Since a human opponent wouldn't be able to pull that off a game AI shouldn't do it either as its goal is to emulate playing against a human.

Similar to how you CAN write an FPS bot that will headshot everything on the first frame with a clear line of fire but it's more useful to find ways to make the AI be inaccurate in a realistic way and have perception weaknesses and whatnot.

Fun fact, I believe one of the bots in UT99 that actually shipped was programmed uniquely, to be deadly accurate. It was to the point that not only would he use a sniper rifle if he had one, but on Godlike difficulty he would instantly headshot you when he saw you. I believe it became a challenge to beat this bot, and people totally took it up because they probably played a lot of UT.

[Draco18s]

The Berkley Overmind is sooo much more effective than the AI that shipped.  As in, trounce the shipped AI with mutalisks....to the point of being able to kill a hoard of Archons without losing a single unit.

I'm guessing Blizz could have done that with their AI but remember that the goal of game AI is not to be the strongest but fun and realistic to play against. Since a human opponent wouldn't be able to pull that off a game AI shouldn't do it either as its goal is to emulate playing against a human.

And yet, instead of writing a stronger AI for the stronger difficulty settings, they just have it cheat resources. :|