Author Topic: Scout Picket buildings  (Read 4841 times)

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2012, 09:43:34 pm »
That said, I'm not in favor of an uncapped mobile, cloaked scout, however slow it may be... though actually it would work if it wouldn't cloak until stationary for 30 seconds, I suppose.  Though it would probably have to be cannot-be-put-in-a-transport to avoid exploits there.

Wouldn't the result of that just be that everything on the planet chases the transport, blows it up, and then the soft squishy picket ship pops out and can't cloak for 30 seconds while the whole population hammers on it? I'm not very good at thinking up exploits, apparently.

Run 5 transports.  Kite with 4, 'breakaway' the one with your picket loads.  Reload all but one while the other four continue to kite.

Rinse, repeat.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2012, 10:13:41 pm »
Yep. I said I wasn't very good at thinking of exploits. Give it 1 hitpoint and make it a high priority target for the AI or something, maybe?

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2012, 10:24:37 pm »
Actually I'm not convinced there is a real exploit there --- if you have nothing on the planet but five transports and the picket object, I suspect the AI will be able to get there in 30 s and blow it up; if you have mobile military to distract it, then you're stirring up threat and paying the intended cost, right?  Not as much of a cost as having to fight your way out of the wormhole with it intact, admittedly; but neither is really free, right?

EDIT: That said, I'm not arguing against the building option; seems to me like there's not much difference.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 10:26:08 pm by Martyn van Buren »

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2012, 10:59:11 am »
In my current game I've only unlocked MarkII scouts and I've almost scouted the whole map. Put a cap of MarkII scouts into a transport and send the transport as far as you can. When it's destroyed move the scouts. The transport allows the scouts to travel few extra hops. Don't rly need MarkIII scouts.
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Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 12:30:58 pm »
This is about "picketing" rather than scouting --- leaving scouts to sit on planets and watch what's happening.  The problem we're hoping to solve isn't so much that scouts can't get far enough as that if you're watching a lot of planets you run out of scouts.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2012, 01:06:27 pm »
Okay, so a more baseline question: Is there really a game mechanical NEED to watch this many planets, or is it simply a case of player OCD? Is there a strategic reason to watch every single planet in the galaxy? (Exhaggeration, but you get my point)
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2012, 01:17:47 pm »
Okay, so a more baseline question: Is there really a game mechanical NEED to watch this many planets, or is it simply a case of player OCD? Is there a strategic reason to watch every single planet in the galaxy? (Exhaggeration, but you get my point)

CPAs and Hybrids, personally.  CPWs also trigger my OCD for wanting to watch this, as will Exo pathing.
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Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2012, 01:30:27 pm »
Yeah, truth be told on 80 planets I've never upgraded scouts past Mk II or felt a strong desire to.  I have never tried 120, however.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2012, 01:31:05 pm »
Okay, so a more baseline question: Is there really a game mechanical NEED to watch this many planets, or is it simply a case of player OCD? Is there a strategic reason to watch every single planet in the galaxy? (Exhaggeration, but you get my point)

CPAs and Hybrids, personally.  CPWs also trigger my OCD for wanting to watch this, as will Exo pathing.
Alright, so followup question: Should it be necessary to give the player the possibility of watching the entire galaxy, or should it instead be a tough choice on what key planets to watch, and which to leave unscouted for periods of time?

I'm just provoking thought here. I like the idea of Pickets, I'm just not sure it's necessary.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 01:59:05 pm »
Okay, so a more baseline question: Is there really a game mechanical NEED to watch this many planets, or is it simply a case of player OCD? Is there a strategic reason to watch every single planet in the galaxy? (Exhaggeration, but you get my point)

CPAs and Hybrids, personally.  CPWs also trigger my OCD for wanting to watch this, as will Exo pathing.
Alright, so followup question: Should it be necessary to give the player the possibility of watching the entire galaxy, or should it instead be a tough choice on what key planets to watch, and which to leave unscouted for periods of time?

I'm just provoking thought here. I like the idea of Pickets, I'm just not sure it's necessary.

Were scout volume to scale up (not feasible since # of scouts limit scouting depth) with # of planets, the disparity wouldn't be as large.  Also, with multi-HW, your scout volume scales incredibly as well.

It's more of a comfort thing for me than anything, truthfully.  I like being able to see what's going on at planets I've utterly ruined in the past, and make sure they've haven't done something crazy... like fire up an EMP Guardian in my absense when I decide to use it as a highway for something else.  While I don't mind having to retake previously taken territory, I don't want to end up in some kind of 'omg wtf' cascade because I didn't bother to leave a scout behind to watch the place.

You're also right, it does 'force' a choice between the two... and in some cases this makes sense, you can't neuter everything, at least not reasonably, which should require some of your scout forces.  I just don't want to have to 'waste' pickets on places I've wrecked.  While it might be a choice, it's not one I find either interesting nor enjoyable, just mostly frustrating.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 02:09:15 pm »
There's also the FoW options in the lobby. You could simply just go with "once scouted it's always visible" if that's your thing. That's basically a permanent picket.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2012, 02:13:04 pm »
There's also the FoW options in the lobby. You could simply just go with "once scouted it's always visible" if that's your thing. That's basically a permanent picket.

True, but no threat from EMP Guardians, and posting a picket (with the scouts) on deeper worlds, or heavily camped ones, can be very difficult as is, but that way anything that touched the wormhole would perma-picket.  I agree it's an option, but with a reasonable challenge to setup the picket I don't believe it'd be game changing, just interesting... and I believe it'd be pretty simple to include (other than new art), it's just a matter of balancing the player cost.

That, and I think it'd be interesting to decide if I want to trade time and effort to get my scouts back.

Edit: Oh, btw, please continue to be the Devil's Advocate.  Justifying this is making me think more about it.   :)
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2012, 05:17:47 pm »
I would have no problem with the Scout Picket Structure costing 250 Knowledge to unlock.  Seems reasonable for a little more scouting flexability.  On the lines of the Advanced Warp Sensor really.

As for multi-HW, maybe Scout caps shouldn't change on multi-HW/player, since they really are more a function of map size than anything else.  If anything, they could even (a bit) with map size.  Like 5+planets/12 or something for Mark I (instead of the current 10).

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Scout Picket buildings
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2012, 08:58:23 pm »
Edit: Oh, btw, please continue to be the Devil's Advocate.  Justifying this is making me think more about it.   :)
That was the general idea ;)
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