Author Topic: 2 Artillery Golems = gg  (Read 7001 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 11:22:29 am »
On the hive golem question: I didn't change the stats of the golem or the wasps.  On the offense the wasps may be getting tore up by the guard posts, though even those probably wouldn't slow them down much.

Gravity Drains on the other hand... yea, that's not good news for a Hive.  Queue entrance of gravity-suppression warhead (I wonder how many physicists we'd lose over that one).
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Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2013, 11:52:47 am »
Queue entrance of gravity-suppression warhead (I wonder how many physicists we'd lose over that one).
Shouldn't that be 'cue'?

Or are you using queue because it's going to have to get in line behind a bunch of other things to get added to the game?

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2013, 11:56:29 am »
I tried using Mark II Military Command Stations vs exos.. well.. they didn't do S... everyone in the exo just drilled trough the Force Fields, ignored everything on my whipping boy and went straight for my Home Command Station.. LOL. I've noticed this behavior before but didn't remember it. There's not enough Force Fields in the game to stop this from happening.. even if there was unlocking all of them AND enough firepower to destroy the exo before the force fields are destroyed before the first exo wouldn't be possible. Gonna have to try getting Mark III Gravitational Turrets and Mark II Hardened Force Fields.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 11:58:04 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2013, 12:03:47 pm »
I tried using Mark II Military Command Stations vs exos.. well.. they didn't do S... everyone in the exo just drilled trough the Force Fields, ignored everything on my whipping boy and went straight for my Home Command Station.. LOL. I've noticed this behavior before but didn't remember it. There's not enough Force Fields in the game to stop this from happening.. even if there was unlocking all of them AND enough firepower to destroy the exo before the force fields are destroyed before the first exo wouldn't be possible. Gonna have to try getting Mark III Gravitational Turrets and Mark II Hardened Force Fields.
Are these golems-hard exos?  Both normal and botnet golems, or just normal?  What's the AIP?

Edit: oh, also, what's the game-time?
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2013, 12:09:50 pm »
Actually it doesn't do anything vs core worlds anymore. A couple of patches ago a.. thing that insta kills all Wasps was added. So that's that.. aaaand I just unloaded 500 Wasps on a Mark IV planet and they didn't do anything. They did absolutely nothing but that was probably because of Spire Gravity Drains.

Most likely because those Mark IV planets had something that basically one-shot close-combat armor type. If you could use raid starship to take out anything with bonus to close-combat. Then perhaps those wasp would have more chance to inflict more damage.

Without knowing exact what was on that mark IV planet I can only assume there was enough firepower to take out close-combat swarm.

As he said in the OP, it was probably gravity. Only gravity can shut down a 500 wasp group so hard it seems to have done nothing.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2013, 12:10:07 pm »
Yep, forcefields alone aren't going to be enough to stop the AI when it "gets serious", especially with its exos. ;)

Offline chemical_art

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2013, 12:26:51 pm »
Military comm stations are used to slay the enemy faster...

but if your whole exo is coming through one point, you need everything on that one point to hope to survive.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2013, 01:16:16 pm »
I tried using Mark II Military Command Stations vs exos.. well.. they didn't do S... everyone in the exo just drilled trough the Force Fields, ignored everything on my whipping boy and went straight for my Home Command Station.. LOL. I've noticed this behavior before but didn't remember it. There's not enough Force Fields in the game to stop this from happening.. even if there was unlocking all of them AND enough firepower to destroy the exo before the force fields are destroyed before the first exo wouldn't be possible. Gonna have to try getting Mark III Gravitational Turrets and Mark II Hardened Force Fields.
Are these golems-hard exos?  Both normal and botnet golems, or just normal?  What's the AIP?

Edit: oh, also, what's the game-time?
Yes that was a Golems-Hard Exo. All other exos are disabled so I only get 1 Exo. AIP is 79, in-game time 3 hours 58 minutes and 10/10 difficulty of course. That was the first exo in this game.

I know how I could have made my life easier however. But I just wanted to test a little bit.. I'm a bit busy with studying at the moment. The exo was announced at approximately 2 hours 27 minutes. I sped up the game with Cheat Engine to the point when the exo spawned and tested how my defenses hold. Sure I lost about an hour of play time.. which I could have used to reduce the AIP to ~40 and get about 9000 more knowledge. I could have captured 1 additional planet for +150k Energy and Knowledge hack 2 other planets. I also could have scouted for Data Centers and/or hacked the near by Super Terminal to reduce the effective AIP to ~40.

Anyway.. my defenses and fleet were quite strong. I stopped ~4k+ CPA without much problems and the 1700 ship waves without any problems (and without the Hive Golem). Mark IV planets were no problem. But still I should have prepared more carefully.

With the additional knowledge and energy I could have unlocked Mark I Fortresses. Though the problem with Fortresses is the 90k energy cost. Basically maintaining one consumes 200 metal and crystal every second. (2 matter converters for each fort). A cap of Mark I Forts need 450.000 Energy. I have 2 whipping boys so lets say I'd build 2 forts on each.. that would be -360.000 Energy.. so I'd need.. lets say 4 Matter Converters in addition to the additional planet. 4 Matter Converters would reduce my income by -400 both resources every second. With both resources maxed and nothing being built nor repaired by income is +1126 Metal/s and +1071 Crystal/s.. so with the 4 Matter Converters my income would be +726 Metal/s and 671 Crystal/s which wouldn't be enough. Though the additional planet would increase my resource incomes a little bit.. still might not be enough though.

So.. Fortresses aren't an option. I could use the 9000 Knowledge to unlock ALL Marks of Heavy Beam Cannons which would cost exactly 9000 Knowledge. All HBCs combined would use 79800 Energy so the 1 additional planet would be enough to cover the energy costs. The Mark IV HBC alone does more damage than an entire cap of Mark I Fortresses and uses 20000 Energy... while Mark I Fort uses 90000 Energy.. seems like Fortresses are only usable in ~7 difficulty games.. They're not worth the insane resource costs. I could place the HBCs so they're not in the way of the Exos and manually order them to attack specific targets (HBCs are at their best when targeted manually).

In short: the next time when I have time I will load an autosave and do the same except reduce the AIP to ~40, capture 1 additional planet, knowledge hack 2 planets and unlock all Marks of HBCs before the Exo.

EDIT: Added the save file right before the exo.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 01:17:55 pm by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2013, 01:22:20 pm »
Hmm, AIP being higher makes the exo come sooner, but I don't think it impacts its size.  That said, sometimes extra time to prepare is all you need.

Fortresses are actually quite helpful in some high-difficulty situations, but yes, the energy and m+c costs are... intense.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2013, 01:35:06 pm »
Hmm, AIP being higher makes the exo come sooner, but I don't think it impacts its size.  That said, sometimes extra time to prepare is all you need.
I had only 10 AIP until about 1 hour 50 minutes into the game. 30 AIP at 2 hours in. 52 at 2 hours 20 minutes and 79 at 2 hours ~30 minutes. So the exo was announced when I started expanding. So if higher AIP makes Exos to be announced sooner that would make sense..

I could try keeping the AIP at 10 until the exo is announced.. and when it is announced I'd expand fast and aggressively and get additional knowledge, energy, defenses and ships and everything. I might have to pop a couple of Distribution Nodes to achieve that.. I'd use the time before the exo announcement to prepare for the fast and aggressive expanding. I'd scout for AIP reducers and neuter all the surrounding planets and THEN do the same I did in this game.

..omg Keith.. why did you release the 6.016 patch now I'm trying to study here..
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2013, 01:39:50 pm »
Ok.. an update. I just tried stopping the exo again.. and this time I got a Mark III Hunter/Killer and once again I almost stopped the exo. I managed to destroy everything else except Hunter/Killer.. it had "only" 29% health left when it killed me. Again.. exos pay too little for starships and golems too much for H/Ks.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2013, 01:41:08 pm »
Keeping AIP really low won't help too much because it has an alternate-minimum-aip rule (to prevent keeping it at AIP-10 meaning that the exo doesn't come until like hour 15), and actually on that difficulty it might be intense enough that AIP isn't really driving it at all.  May need to adjust it, was just trying to counter Faulty running away with golems/spirecraft on 10/10 ;)

why did you release the 6.016 patch now I'm trying to study here..
Dastardly plans of world domination.  You know, the usual.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2013, 01:49:49 pm »
was just trying to counter Faulty
Different map layout and settings = a completely different game
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2013, 02:45:42 am »
YES! I stopped the Hunter/Killer Exo wave! Before the Hive Golem didn't do much because the AIs unlocked Spire Gravity Drains so the Exos had a few dozen of them. Mark Vs of course. I unloaded 500 wasps right on top of the wormhole the Exo was about to come trough. So whatever came trough that wormhole was pretty much 1 shot. Though this didn't go perfectly.. I ended up losing the Hive Golem.

I could build 2 Force Field Generators and Mark III Gravitational Turrets in front of the wormholes so whatever comes trough the wormhole gets stuck between the FFs.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 2 Artillery Golems = gg
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2013, 02:50:32 am »
Also. AIP does affect the size of the exos. Now I get 3 Golems and fleets instead of 2. (2 at 10 AIP and 3 at 79 AIP)
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!