Author Topic: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?  (Read 9982 times)

Offline swizzlewizzle

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 43
10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« on: April 17, 2014, 08:13:42 am »
So on my recent 10/10 game I pulled a scored earth and a speed racer... if I am reading the scorched earth AI correctly.. it denies ALL planets?

In that case, how is it possible to win a 10/10 with both AIs as scorched earth? It just seems to me like this one AI type is leaps and bounds harder then pretty much any other, including the large exo galactic wave senders (at least with those AIs you can expand past a single planet.

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 09:33:02 am »
In that case, how is it possible to win a 10/10 with both AIs as scorched earth?

Scorched Earth / Scorched Earth is not a winable game.  At any difficulty.

I had a Scorched Earth / Stealth Master one time.  Any planet I could see was just a nuclear explosion waiting to happen.  The rest were planetary cloaked.

I rapidly gave up on that game, and that was at 7/7

Offline resonence

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 12:44:26 pm »
There is one way i could conceive of beating that combo, though it is nothing but cheese. Play a 10 planet map and take the max number of possible home worlds - 8 . Or if that's too cheesetastic for you take 7, to leave one nonhomeworld, non you planet.

Again, this is completely cheesing the scenario, but you could at least in theory win.

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 12:48:19 pm »
Most 10/10 involves significant cheese anyway.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 12:52:39 pm »
Yea, you can make the scenario winnable by taking a bunch of territory in the lobby, because that's the only time you can take territory :)

The game is very deliberate about never picking Scorched Earth as a random AI if the other one is already Scorched Earth, for this reason.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline ZaneWolfe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 02:03:49 am »
Most 10/10 involves significant cheese anyway.

Isn't part of the point of a 10/10 game that you CANNOT beat it without significant cheese? If I recall the design goal, any non-cheese/insignificant cheese win over 10/10 is a design flaw and will be corrected?

Offline Coppermantis

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,212
  • Avenger? I hardly know 'er!
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 03:53:24 am »
Most 10/10 involves significant cheese anyway.

Isn't part of the point of a 10/10 game that you CANNOT beat it without significant cheese? If I recall the design goal, any non-cheese/insignificant cheese win over 10/10 is a design flaw and will be corrected?
Yep.
http://arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=8373
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline RockyBst

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 07:20:25 am »
See: The 45 second irreplacable retargetting and threat behaviour changes coming out of my current diff 10, 10 planet thread. ;)

I think you have slightly more chance of winning against a double scorcher than after using a Mk. 3 nuke, seeing as you at least still have resources from your homeworlds, but personally scorched earth is an AI type too far for me.


Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 10:29:55 am »
I think you have slightly more chance of winning against a double scorcher than after using a Mk. 3 nuke, seeing as you at least still have resources from your homeworlds, but personally scorched earth is an AI type too far for me.

You'd have no power generation structures.  You'd have an absolute maximum 36,000 power.

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 10:50:21 am »
Is the Omega Drive nuke-immune?

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 11:56:21 am »
Is the Omega Drive nuke-immune?

Nein.
Also, that would be cheating.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 11:58:28 am »
Is the Omega Drive nuke-immune?

Nein.
Also, that would be cheating.
In the world of scorched earth AIs and Mark III nukes: if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 12:02:28 pm »
You could be it easily with enough spawned fallen spire fleets, but I thought I'd bring up something less lolstompyfirst, since the omega drive only gives you power and metal. And a thousand AIP if you blow it up. :)

Sadly, you'd have to obtain one post-nuke to actually keep it, which makes it rather hard to actually build anything with the energy you now have to use.

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 12:31:50 pm »
Good news:
It does not require supply.

Meaning that if you had one, post-nuke, it would still function.

Offline Kahuna

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
  • Kahuna Matata!
Re: 10/10 Scorched earth/ Scorched Earth - impossible to beat?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 02:59:20 am »
Most 10/10 involves significant cheese anyway.

Isn't part of the point of a 10/10 game that you CANNOT beat it without significant cheese?
Yep.
But then again.. what counts as "cheese"? I'd say Fallen Spire, Champions, some bonus ships, multiple homeworlds, lazy ai and some other settings, full visibility, easy golems and easy spirecraft. Maybe Area Minefields, Assault Transports and Core Turrets. (No Riot Control Starships are not cheesy) EDIT: disabling Core Shield Generators might be cheese too.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 03:01:32 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!