Author Topic: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships  (Read 5319 times)

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2013, 10:10:32 PM »
Divide non-superweapon stats by 10, superweapon stats by 2-5?

Non-superweapon by 100 and superweapon by 10-20 sounds better.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2013, 10:20:22 PM »
Superweapons certainly don't need to be above all else by orders of magnitude, though a 5x buff might work.

Golems and spirecraft have seemed very fragile (a black widow couldn't even get through a nothing-special mkIV system alone), though.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2013, 02:09:19 AM »
Golems and spirecraft have seemed very fragile (a black widow couldn't even get through a nothing-special mkIV system alone), though.
Those new Guard Posts with bonus damage vs Ultra-Heavy would probably 1 shot an Armored Golem.. hell.. Golems aren't even immune to radar dampening LOL
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
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) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
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Offline LordSloth

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2013, 04:01:30 AM »

What about us humans and putting missile turrets under forcefields, especially higher mark ones?
IIRC, our missile turrets decimate AI raid starships too.

In particular, the AI doesn't have any damage reduction from firing out from underneath forcefields. Let me be fair: in my test game, I did encounter systems with this "Venn Diagram" of death from forcefields, missile guard posts, and fortresses, but it didn't bring my game to a screeching halt.

Missile Guard Posts are in a weird position in the triangle, they counter medium (spire), neutron (zenith), polycrystal (heavy bomber), and ultra-light (raids). Normally, countering them with plasma siege starships works just fine even if they're covered by a FF, and various other methods can clear them out if covered by a fortress. But that said, if they get FF and Fort coverage, they get a disproportionately large effect. Remember, AI Forcefields do not cause damage reduction to units firing out from under them. It is still entirely plausible to crack these systems without pulling out your hair, if I force myself to avoid exaggerating the difficulty of these systems. I did however unlock multiple MK3s, so that helped.

Really, I just think that it would be fitting to give low-level Raid Starships a role to fill in the current rock-paper-scissors guard post balance. Necessary? Nope. In other threads, you might even see people talking about buffing Raid Starships in a much more general fashion again. This wouldn't necessarily preclude that, but it would be a role-based buff, rather than a stat-based one.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2013, 11:17:14 AM »
IMO give swarmers cap DPSes that are 2-3x those of non-swarmers, perhaps also give low-cap ships lower cap DPSes (but also lower cap prices). Make swarms HURT. That'll make up for the various vulnerabilities they have. Perhaps also make sure they all have very low build times so you can carry an Enclave with you to counter the rapid attrition they face in combat without needing engineers on con-assist to get good output rates.

Kahuna: Please don't propagate more radar dampening immunity. It was specifically intended to force long ranged attackers to close in on the SSB, not to give all those long range attackers immunity.

Offline Bognor

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2013, 11:57:31 AM »
Can anyone give stats for average spawn rates of the turtle types? I wonder just how high it is right now...
Based on this, Turtles and related AIs get roughly twice as many eyes as most AIs, and roughly four times as many as the more aggressive AIs.  Don't know the actual numbers, though.
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Offline RCIX

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2013, 12:22:21 PM »
I would like to say, low-cap/starship only games feel really fun to play in that you can actually do some damage without refleeting every objective you take (though you have to avoid some things, or should once OMDs get upgraded and other ways to penalize starships are made). I would rather see fleet ships and swarm ships be buffed up closer to that level of interesting strength in some way than see starships be nerfed back into meh-dom.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2013, 12:35:10 PM »
I think that's just not possible, once fleets get stronger those starships will start dying again.

Offline Kjara

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Re: (Bonus Ships) Comparing Swarmers to Pseudo-Starships
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2013, 02:49:18 PM »
One issue that I'm running into is that when the AI has a bunch of pseudo-starships unlocked AI eye planets are a pain, esp if most of your unlocks are swarmers.  Laser gatlings vs spire stealth battleships kinda sucks when you are only allowed a 2 to 1 ratio.