What To Do With A High-Level Planet Next To Your Start?

[nullspace]

How do you deal with a high-level planet next to one of your planets?  In my current game, there was a mk4 planet belonging to a teleporter turtle next to my home world.  If I attacked it early on, it would have been very costly to do any damage, and destroying the command center would have been suicide if that released the defenders to attack my home planet.  But I was worried that the AI would continually reinforce this planet so that I would never be strong enough to take it, until it did a cross-planet attack on my home. 

The strategy that ended up working was to do nothing.  I spent hours conquering easier planets to build up my resource income and knowledge, until I had a fleet big enough to assault the mk4 planet, which surprisingly only had about 1000 mk4 ships even though it bordered multiple human planets.  How does the AI decide where to send reinforcements? 

This is still important in my current game, because I have an advanced factory on a planet next to a mk4 planet belonging to a vicious raider.  I could have conquered this planet, but it's next to the turtle's homeworld, and I didn't want to put THAT on alert.  But I did destroy most of the guard posts. 

[x4000]

How do you deal with a high-level planet next to one of your planets?  In my current game, there was a mk4 planet belonging to a teleporter turtle next to my home world.  If I attacked it early on, it would have been very costly to do any damage, and destroying the command center would have been suicide if that released the defenders to attack my home planet.  But I was worried that the AI would continually reinforce this planet so that I would never be strong enough to take it, until it did a cross-planet attack on my home. 

The strategy that ended up working was to do nothing.  I spent hours conquering easier planets to build up my resource income and knowledge, until I had a fleet big enough to assault the mk4 planet, which surprisingly only had about 1000 mk4 ships even though it bordered multiple human planets.  How does the AI decide where to send reinforcements? 

This is still important in my current game, because I have an advanced factory on a planet next to a mk4 planet belonging to a vicious raider.  I could have conquered this planet, but it's next to the turtle's homeworld, and I didn't want to put THAT on alert.  But I did destroy most of the guard posts. 

For all about how the AI does reinforcements:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_AI_Reinforcements

Having a Mark IV world right next to your worlds is not particularly more dangerous than having a lower-level world at this stage.  Basically, a cross-planet attack is now a diffuse event, comprising a bunch of ships of the level that matches the current tech level, from a variety of enemy planets.  So unless your AI's tech level is already mark IV, you'd never see mark IV ships coming against your planets in a CPR.  That is different from older versions of the game -- is there some outdated text somewhere still saying the old way?  If you could point me to it, I'll be sure to fix it.

So really, the Mark IV worlds are really more roadblocks than anything else.  They restrict travel, and they are hard to capture if there is something valuable on them.  They are not otherwise all that much more threatening, though, in terms of adjacency.  So your strategy is pretty much the right one, just ignore it so long as you have done a Gate Raid (if you care about that enough to make the hard raid).  The other disadvantage is that it creates a lack of buffer between you and the AI, so if there is later high threat there is risk that they might just come straight into your home planet where you don't want them to come.  So, there are those sort of positional disadvantages related to your inability (or choice not to, if you just deem it's not worth the cost, as in this case) to take a high level planet like that.

That can be a significant effect, especially on higher difficulties, but it's not an exponentially-bad effect of having large numbers of high-level ships swarming you or anything.  That would be pretty impossible!  If you're used to playing terrestrial RTS games, think of the Mark IV planets almost as being like mountains or rivers in those games; their gameplay effect is fairly similar in this space game.

[nullspace]

Thanks for the reply!  I think it was the wiki article you linked that originally gave me the idea that the AI would do a cross-planet attack when a planet "filled up" with reinforcements.  I've spent the last few games avoiding planets adjacent to mk4s in an attempt to prevent attacks by high tech ships. 

I'm really liking the game, but not knowing the rules that the AI plays by (or misunderstanding them) is making it hard to come up with strategies that make sense. 

[x4000]

Thanks for the reply!  I think it was the wiki article you linked that originally gave me the idea that the AI would do a cross-planet attack when a planet "filled up" with reinforcements.  I've spent the last few games avoiding planets adjacent to mk4s in an attempt to prevent attacks by high tech ships. 

I'm really liking the game, but not knowing the rules that the AI plays by (or misunderstanding them) is making it hard to come up with strategies that make sense. 

No problem.  This was a great questions, so I've added that response to the wiki:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_High_Level_AI_Planets

Additionally, you might like this explanation for Cross-Planet Attacks, which I just added based on a player question in another thread:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Cross_Planet_Attacks


For the AI rules thing, if you have other questions, please do let me know.  I think most of them are explained well enough by the tutorials that you can plan pretty well, and some of it comes about through exploration.  But for those who want to Know From The Start and be able to plan without experimentation (which, for some but certainly not all players, is part of the fun of it), the wiki is intended to be a comprehensive (or nearly so) guide.  These two topics were definitely lacking, so I've added those in.  If there are other topics that you find are missing from the wiki, please do let me know!

[El-Ravager]

I would try to kill it immediately//very early and here is why:

If the world is alerted, wich is this case it would be, it will recieve more reinforcements, meaning killing it will get harder and harder.
Killing such a planet is easiest at the beginning, when AI progress is low and reinforcements are small so what you kill tends to stay dead long enogh to get the job done.
making lvl 4 worlds primary targets while keeping overall progress low will mean less high tech units overall.
Loosing a lot of ships in a drawn out battle at the beginning of the game is not so bad as the AI can draw less of an advantage from your losses, simply because at progress >50 a few turrets mean you are save.
If you leave it alive it will get reinforced into hell and if there ever is a cross planet attack, it will be bad news unless you have a really heavy defense at the gate, wich of course will hurt you elsewhere.

Here is how I do it:
If you can, keep a scout alive, it helps to plan.
Get tech for lvl 3 ships, bombers/cruisers preferred since they arent neutralized by tractor beams. bombers aspecially prefered if there is a shield. Starships are not an option because at this stage they take too long to build.
Build up a sizable force. If you have a target of opportunity like a resource rich lvl 1 system capture it before the lvl 4 (I tend to play a 2-3 planet start where this is not needed, but I guess it would help on a 1 planet start).
Once you outnumber them, go in and hit them hard. Bring along a mobile builder and make some cheap turrets for the enemy ships to shoot while you smash the infratructure. As usual leave the command station for last to not get evil lvl 4 raiders in your home star.

Thats it really. It works suprisingly well for me against diff 7 AIs. Mainly you cant be intimidated by that big evil IV on the map

[x4000]

El-Ravager, those are some great tips.  In the past, before the "fast starts" were added (so players start with so much knowledge), this strategy you describe was almost impossible because just getting a single mark II ship took too long.  Now your strategy is definitely possible and I imagine could be put to great use.  When there is a forcefield over the enemy command station at a high-level planet it is still much harder, but not impossible to kill early.  It just depends on what your priorities are, etc, since the other lower-level planets are going to be reinforcing while you are busy killing the IV planet.

So, mainly my point is: cool strategy, and I bet that works great and thanks for sharing.  But, I feel like there isn't one single "best path" even with this, since you will be taking out that super-high planet at something of an opportunity cost with the other nearby planets (they reinforce fast).  But I agree your strategy should be considered one of the several highly-valid courses of action to take.

[El-Ravager]

thanks

I dont know what the fast starts are, I found the game very recently..

I've always been an aggressive player and I prefer to know if I win or loose early. If I cant crack that lvl 4 when its at its weakest, I cant hope to crack the tougher ones later on.

[x4000]

No problem.  Fast starts are how the game works now, versus a couple of months ago you started with fewer resources and knowledge, etc.  So some people still think about the Mark IV planets in terms of the old way, I think.  For the Mark IV planets, just remember that as the game goes on you also get stronger, so your ability to deal with them will hopefully increase if the campaign is going well.   But I understand the sentiment.

[Spikey00]

rofl, depending on my mood I may just tech up to leech starships and pretty much have a good time watching the AI destroy itself. 

[Vaos]

In the Zenith Remnant now, if this kind of planet also contain a Raid engine, it could become much more of an issue. That would lead to some pretty interesting scenarios/challenges.

[x4000]

In the Zenith Remnant now, if this kind of planet also contain a Raid engine, it could become much more of an issue. That would lead to some pretty interesting scenarios/challenges.

Thank the lord, Raid Engines should never appear on planets next to your home.  But you could still run into that same sort of situation a hop away.

[Alex2290]

rofl, depending on my mood I may just tech up to leech starships and pretty much have a good time watching the AI destroy itself. 

Does this really work?

[Vaos]

Thank the lord, Raid Engines should never appear on planets next to your home.  But you could still run into that same sort of situation a hop away.

Even against the Raid Engine AI?

[x4000]

Thank the lord, Raid Engines should never appear on planets next to your home.  But you could still run into that same sort of situation a hop away.

Even against the Raid Engine AI?

Yes, I think so.  Or that's the intent, which I may have messed up.  Otherwise those guys are just Insta-Death on most maps.  Which I seem to recall hearing that they are at the moment.

[RCIX]

Actually either raid starships or leech starships would work, though they'll have a lot of trouble on an IV planet.