Transports

[superking]

Did anyone else feel sorta staggered when they tried out transports for the first time?

I restarted my game when I discovered them (only been playing about 20 hours) and started a 60 planet vs 2x 7.6 difficulty.

I developed a very simple stratergy that divided the games difficulty by about a thousand:

1) put 200 assorted fighter/bomber into transport
2) fly transport into enemy system

3) move to enemy gaurd/special op post
4) unload
5) fire one salvo, destroying target
6) get back in transport, no losses
7) repeat from #3 until planet is clean, then progress to #8

8 ) move to next planet, proceed from #3

keep this going with multiple transport groups as the game esculates, it works just as well vs planets with ion cannons, or 4000 resident ships- ion cannon projectiles dont arrive in time, the one salvo and rembark take about 10 seconds. to deal with 4000 gaurds just send one transport through empty and fly it into an obscure corner of the map so everything chases it, then clean house as normal.

transports are dirt cheap, mega mega fast and ultra super tough, they fly through mines and shrug off pretty much everything, they outrun normal units and can run rings around most the starships. With this strat I cleaned out all the posts in a 4 system radius in every direction within the first hour! It was very very easy and felt suspiciously like cheating.

does anyone else find transports to be kind of lame? I think they should be slower, and if not significantly weaker, then at least more expensive and harder to replace... right now transport spam is the only way to roll.

[Draco18s]

I think they should be slower, and if not significantly weaker, then at least more expensive and harder to replace... right now transport spam is the only way to roll.

Slower: definitely not.  The reason for having them is so you can move units that are slow (bombers) at a reasonable speed from one system to another.

Their weakness is that if they are out of supply then they can only unload 10 ships at once.

[Doddler]

I think transports need to be faster than most units... otherwise there wouldn't be a whole lot of reason to use them other than to bypass mines and the like.  Although, I don't think transports role in deep strikes would necessarily be lost if they moved a little slower than they do now.  Amusingly on fast and dangerous game speed transports can outrun (or close to it) lots of missile type projectiles until they stop or make a sharp turn.

There are some other exploitive behavior you can do with them.  In a recent game I would put a transport next to my tractor beams.  When a wave comes in, instead of attacking the tractor beams or my turrets, they would attract the transport.  Oops?  

You can also use transports to make ships leave their post and attack you by having them follow you around.  Not sure that's a bad thing, there needs to be some way to convince AI ships to come after you, but it feels awfully like you're tricking the AI.  Though, I guess they never know if you do have ships in the transport or not.

I think the big thing is that most AI ships actually have a lot of trouble hitting transports.  I'm not sure how shields work but with their current level of shields, they can ignore most ship types without being hit unless they let themselves get to point blank.

But I think ultimately they're a really good unit, which is a steal at it's current price.  I don't think it needs much in the way of stat changes, but perhaps you are right about it costing more.  10k metal and 6k crystal is hardly much at all.

[Draco18s]

Though, I guess they never know if you do have ships in the transport or not.

Does it matter?  Last I checked an exploded transport drops all ships into normal space without damage on them.  Aka "Cluster Bomb."

[Blahness]

Does it matter?  Last I checked an exploded transport drops all ships into normal space without damage on them.  Aka "Cluster Bomb."

Not if it's reclaimed.  Then your ships just... vanish.

[superking]

given their crazy speed I also think they would still be quite usable with half as much health- 2 million. thats still double that of a raid starship, which have comparable speed.

and yeah, closer to starship costs

[Draco18s]

given their crazy speed I also think they would still be quite usable with half as much health- 2 million. thats still double that of a raid starship, which have comparable speed.

Remember, they do take damage for using wormholes in systems that are out of supply.  A transport (as is) can jump 7 systems out and still have remaining hitpoints, but no farther, as the next jump would kill it.

I wouldn't take that distance down any farther than 5.

[drum]

yea sending one in to distract 2k ai ships then following up with an attack force does feel a bit sleazy, but i'd rather the ai reacted better than have the nerf bat hit a home run

after all, raid starships, while a bit more fragile, could still be used to do the same thing- the root problem is the ai behaviour, not the transport itself imo

[Draco18s]

the root problem is the ai behaviour, not the transport itself imo

Correct.

[superspeck]

Well, yeah, Transports can be a game-changer, but I think the mid-3.08x nerfbat hit them hard enough 'cept in one respect. I think as they get damaged by enemy fire, the ships inside should be damaged too. If you look at it this way -- a transport is basically a big warehouse with engines attached. When it gets shot, the damaging effect should punch right through the thin walls and strike the heavily armored fleet units inside.

As it is right now, a Transport -is- a fleet unit, sort of like a Fortress without guns but with speed.

[superking]

Well, yeah, Transports can be a game-changer, but I think the mid-3.08x nerfbat hit them hard enough 'cept in one respect. I think as they get damaged by enemy fire, the ships inside should be damaged too. If you look at it this way -- a transport is basically a big warehouse with engines attached. When it gets shot, the damaging effect should punch right through the thin walls and strike the heavily armored fleet units inside.

do not want

[Draco18s]

Well, yeah, Transports can be a game-changer, but I think the mid-3.08x nerfbat hit them hard enough 'cept in one respect. I think as they get damaged by enemy fire, the ships inside should be damaged too. If you look at it this way -- a transport is basically a big warehouse with engines attached. When it gets shot, the damaging effect should punch right through the thin walls and strike the heavily armored fleet units inside.

do not want

Agreed.  If 1 damage to the transport was 1 damage to everything inside, then one gun becomes two hundred guns in terms of damage (for a fully loaded transport) and because the transport has more hp than anything it can carry, that means your fleet dies before the transport does.

Bad bad bad.

[Doddler]

Perhaps if the transport explodes/dies a small health penalty (5%-20%) could be applied to the ships inside.  That would slightly penalize the usage of scrapping transports to instantly release all the ships.

[superspeck]

Agreed.  If 1 damage to the transport was 1 damage to everything inside, then one gun becomes two hundred guns in terms of damage (for a fully loaded transport) and because the transport has more hp than anything it can carry, that means your fleet dies before the transport does.

Bad bad bad.

I misspoke. 1 point of damage to transport = 1 point of damage to random unit inside, NOT 1 point of damage = 200 points of damage to units inside.

Or do it on a random chance basis (1 point of damage to transport, 66% random chance of 1 point of damage to a unit inside), or do it on a % of transport full basis (1 point of damage to transport, transport is 30% full, 30% chance of 1 point carried through to a unit inside it) ... there's lots of ways to calculate it.

A transport is a framework, a tissue paper skin, and some great big freaking engines. How the heck does it shield the units inside of it from the maelstrom that we sometimes fly them through, when a purpose-built warship that moves at the same speed does not shield it's internal systems?

[Velox]

Agreed.  If 1 damage to the transport was 1 damage to everything inside, then one gun becomes two hundred guns in terms of damage (for a fully loaded transport) and because the transport has more hp than anything it can carry, that means your fleet dies before the transport does.

Bad bad bad.

I misspoke. 1 point of damage to transport = 1 point of damage to random unit inside, NOT 1 point of damage = 200 points of damage to units inside.

Or do it on a random chance basis (1 point of damage to transport, 66% random chance of 1 point of damage to a unit inside), or do it on a % of transport full basis (1 point of damage to transport, transport is 30% full, 30% chance of 1 point carried through to a unit inside it) ... there's lots of ways to calculate it.

A transport is a framework, a tissue paper skin, and some great big freaking engines. How the heck does it shield the units inside of it from the maelstrom that we sometimes fly them through, when a purpose-built warship that moves at the same speed does not shield it's internal systems?

     The problem with transports is that they have something of an identity crisis going on.  Are they meant to:

     1) Move units rapidly from one place to another, or
     2) Move units safely from one place to another?

     The exceptionally high speed, tractor immunity, and similar attributes are geared towards the first, while the incredible health pool, heavy shields, and mine immunity are geared towards the second.  Perhaps they ought to be split into two units - fast-but-fragile with risk to on-board units for extra mobility, and slow-but-tough for survival - or just specialized down into one role.  As it is, they perform both roles extremely well which, since they can carry large numbers of horribly destructive death-dealing machines, means that they essentially good at ALL roles.

     And man, are they ever!  I've just been trying them out, and they are officially* Good For What Ails You(tm).




     *unofficially, but I can make a good argument for it