Author Topic: Threat indicator  (Read 3217 times)

Offline deadone

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Threat indicator
« on: June 28, 2013, 11:19:51 am »
Hi Generals,

i want to talk with you and ask questions about the Threat indicator in to top of the screen.

First Question:
Whats generates Threat?

My own observation are:
-Crossplanetattacks
-Leftover units of destoryed Guardsposts; and leftover units of attack waves?
-Deepstriking of the player
-just fly trough enemy territory?

Second Question:
Howto keep them low?

Third question:
Howto deal with them?
Because i have the feeling when i use the galaxydisplaymode to find them and try to destroy them, this will generate some threat aswell.

So plz correct me if i m wrong and any tips are welcome. i m kinda new to the game and its already version 7.0 with some many addons. :)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:39:07 pm by deadone »

Offline relmz32

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 12:42:03 pm »
I love Treats!

However, I expect you are asking about Threat, which is less delicious and more trying to gnaw your face off.

What generates threat treats?
Exos are not on your list and are counted as treats when they spawn. However, they have a target and do not operate as normal treats.

How to keep treats manageable?
Short answer: Kill them.

Treats will tend to "stalk" a wormhole next to one your planets, and wait until the AI expects that it has enough firepower to win a fight with that system. Look for groups of non-greyed out ships hanging out on AI worlds adj to yours.

A programmer had a problem. She thought to herself, "I know, I'll solve it with threads!". has Now problems. two she.

Offline Tridus

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,305
  • I'm going to do what I do best: lecture her!
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 12:53:12 pm »
I think you got most of the ways threat ships appear. The primary way is when ships are "freed" because you attacked something and woke them up on a planet, but didn't kill them. The Threatening Eye AI building also creates threat ships.

The best way to deal with them is what relmz32 said: kill them. Threat ships tend to build up at AI planets next to your planets. If you get scouts on those bordering planets, you'll be able to see on the map a buildup of AI ships on one of those planets.  Left alone long enough they'll attack you when they think there's enough of them to win.

Offline Fluffiest

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2013, 01:01:48 pm »
Last time I poked my nose* into an AI homeworld, threat skyrocketed from about 100 to over 5000. Is this a display error, or does attacking an AI homeworld really release five thousand mkIV and Core ships to threat? If so, how the heck am I supposed to not die? This is only on difficulty 6.

* "Nose" consisted of a cap of mks I-V Vorticular Cutlasses.

Offline Tridus

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,305
  • I'm going to do what I do best: lecture her!
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2013, 01:21:46 pm »
Was there a Core CPA guard post there? That would do it. :)

Offline deadone

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 01:47:04 pm »
@relmz32
treats?...ups  :P

...yeah ok i will keep an eye open for them and hunt them down.
ty guys

Offline relmz32

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 01:49:44 pm »
aww, i liked treats better.

If the threat is giving you a particular headache, stick a .sav file in the thread and we will check it out and give suggestions.

In general, riot starships + plasma seige starships are good at slowing down and harassing large groups of ships.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:51:22 pm by relmz32 »
A programmer had a problem. She thought to herself, "I know, I'll solve it with threads!". has Now problems. two she.

Offline LordSloth

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 01:50:21 pm »
I'm only going to bring this up once, then assume you're on the default option (non-lazy)
There is a toggle in the game setup lobby called Lazy AI. By default, this is off, and the AI will, among other things, camp out a distance away from the wormhole. With it on, the AI will camp out directly on the wormhole, which makes a considerable difference.

First up, scout pickets will help you locate threat buildup. This is very worthwhile information, and I've bound the galaxy filter for threat to the T key to expedite things, although I can find out some of the same information from the Threat tooltip.

Second, a threat fleet will attack it's target if it feels your are sufficiently vulnerable. This is why it tends to build up to a horrifying mass outside your chokepoint. If you're worried about two large but seperate groups of threat joining up (particularly during a CPA), it can pay to load your mobile units into transports and pull them a couple of systems away from the front line. There is a chance you'll bait the smaller force into attacking now rather after it joins up with the other seven hundred oncoming ships, and the transports are fast enough you should be able to return to the scene of the crime in time, especially if you have raid starships or spider turrets or tractors/forcefields placed specifically to prevent or slow retreat.

If that isn't an option (and you have auto AI progress on), drawing them to the wormhole early with a sacrificial fighter fleet and then hitting them with a lightning warhead while they're still on the far side of the wormhole can save you a huge chunk of time rebuilding. It's still much better to do without the AIP increase if you can manage it. I particularly like to send in the sacrificial fighters, then send in either Spire Tractor Platforms or Riot Starships MK1 (with tractor and shield) at the last moment, wait half a second for the tractors to engage, and then immediately pull the abducted ships back to my system. For the best results, pay attention to the location/existence of your rally points, and consider leech starships/mercenary parasites.

In theory, if you send in a small enough force, you won't agro the entire system. You can often send in just a wave of mark one fighters and take out Tachyon Sentinels without causing a huge issue. Going near or even targeting (from the other side of the system) the AI command station will have dramatic results.  Blobs will usually agro things. Sending in just enough fleetships to take down one post at a time will do a much better job of minimizing resulting threat. In practice, guardians and starships (yours and the AIs) make it a bit difficult to pull off that balancing act. And, as you take down guard posts and their defenders, the equation will skew that much more towards agro.

If you're just passing through a system, you can probably minimize threat with the use of (Assault) Transports and Cloaker Starships. Putting units on "Standby" so they don't shoot anything other than their primary target can also be helpful, especially if the balance of strength in the system is already quite close.

Another thing you can do is 'sacrificial systems'. Your choke points and whipping boys are always heavily fortified, so you're more likely to have huge threat buildups. Having an expendable system outside your defensive line with light defenses can help keep threat buildup low.

Various minor factions can stir up trouble and loose threat on the galaxy (Dark Spire for example can take out guard posts and also cloak). The devourer golem, on the other hand, will lovingly eat both your fleet and the AI fleet and leave little left for threat. In a more 'vanilla' game, you need to keep an eye out for any tractor units the AI has on hand, as they will love to haul your fleetships deeper into their territory, stirring up trouble and alerting systems along the way.

If I am going to maintain a particular border for a good long while (preferably away from any MKIV planets), I neuter the adjacent systems, taking out guard posts. While the guard posts have an impact on reinforcements, I find the reduction in guardians most significant. Then, I go to the "CTRLS" menu in the bottom left, switch to the Planetary controls, and put a high "number of enemy ships" (depending on the mark of the planet and my fleet) and a lower "number of aggressive ships" (depending on my defenses, AI bonus ship types) alert on on that AI planet. The first will warn me if the regular defensive forces are growing too large for me to handily clear out. I might set something like 500 for a mark two planet, for instance. If this alert goes off, I need to take action while it is still convenient to do so. On that same system I might set an alert for 100 aggressive ships, which might not require immediate action, but will remind me to make sure I have transports ready, and to only send my fleet on limited engagements where I'm capable of pulling back if something starts going wrong. I'll happily send swarmers or fighters on suicide missions, and starships on surgical strikes, but bombers and frigates take more time and resources, so I need to be careful of fleet wipes there.

There is also the incredibly helpful "ignore this planet when auto-pathing" option.

Sometimes I actually -like- to knock a system into threat mode, particularly if it lets me fight outside the influence of a nasty guard post or fortress. Once it all gathers together, then I send in my blob!

Oh, and I nearly forget. There are human-buildable warpgates for fabricators, fleetships, starships, etc. They can be a big help getting reinforcements to a forward base without antagonizing all the systems in between if a transport pops, though this works better if you have unlocked "Warp Jammer Command Stations". A different option is the Mobile Space Dock - if you can replace your losses without leaving the system, you won't need to leave before you kill most of the ships.

There is something called border aggression, but I don't have an intuitive understanding of the balancing points for it yet at this current release.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:53:21 pm by LordSloth »

Offline deadone

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2013, 02:53:30 pm »
@ LordSloth
wow nice guide
i will try some of the strategies right now...and the Planetary controls warning under CRTL seems like a good idea.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:27:08 pm by deadone »

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2013, 05:17:11 pm »
Last time I poked my nose* into an AI homeworld, threat skyrocketed from about 100 to over 5000. Is this a display error, or does attacking an AI homeworld really release five thousand mkIV and Core ships to threat? If so, how the heck am I supposed to not die? This is only on difficulty 6.

* "Nose" consisted of a cap of mks I-V Vorticular Cutlasses.
Generally you don't poke your nose into the homeworlds unless its either a scoutship (which doesn't provoke a response), or you're full-on attacking.

Offline Fluffiest

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 06:33:49 pm »
Last time I poked my nose* into an AI homeworld, threat skyrocketed from about 100 to over 5000. Is this a display error, or does attacking an AI homeworld really release five thousand mkIV and Core ships to threat? If so, how the heck am I supposed to not die? This is only on difficulty 6.

* "Nose" consisted of a cap of mks I-V Vorticular Cutlasses.
Generally you don't poke your nose into the homeworlds unless its either a scoutship (which doesn't provoke a response), or you're full-on attacking.

It was an attack, aimed at killing a couple of the nastier guardposts. I was ready for retaliation, but the sheer numbers surprised me.

I think I worked out what caused it, though - the three Neinzul Spawner guardposts, all of which I triggered. Most of those 5000 ships were cockroaches.

Offline deadone

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 07:04:04 am »
yes certain AI buildings can spawn alot of units, like all the EYEs or alarmpost. And AI types can change things alot, like the Vengeful AI added in  Vengeance of the Machine.
and i have that AI in my game .. :P

Wiki:
This AI retaliates with (relatively) small exogalactic attacks every time you destroy one of its guard posts, warp gates, command stations, data centers... it's kind of attached to a lot of things, actually. Doesn't take criticism well.





   

Offline deadone

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Treat indicator
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 08:42:51 am »
If you're just passing through a system, you can probably minimize threat with the use of (Assault) Transports and Cloaker Starships. Putting units on "Standby" so they don't shoot anything other than their primary target can also be helpful, especially if the balance of strength in the system is already quite close.

this realy helped me out.. :)

Offline Shrugging Khan

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,217
  • Neinzul Y PzKpfw Tiger!
Re: Threat indicator
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 08:47:45 am »
I've made a habit of always keeping my fleet loaded up in transports; it really helps to keep down threat, stay safe from devourer golems, and have all my ships ready to move at top speed at a moment's notice.  :)
The beatings shall continue
until morale improves!