Author Topic: The Ship Strategy Conversation  (Read 20387 times)

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2012, 08:41:00 pm »
Of all the solutions, I'd actually probably prefer the Shredder not appear in caches.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2012, 09:02:07 pm »
Of all the solutions, I'd actually probably prefer the Shredder not appear in caches.

Agreed. I say make it such that the viral shredders don't appear, increase the number of other ships spawned so on average, the same number of ships are spawned (scaled for ship caps), and decrease their AIP cost, since really the only reason most players crack one open currently is for the shredders.
How much reduction in AIP? I don't know. 75% of their current AIP cost maybe? 50%?

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Offline PokerChen

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2012, 10:12:25 pm »
I stated specifically lower than mark-IV because I find mark-IV/V beam frigates, bombards, electric bombers, and chameleons as *very* useful with a long survival life when directed as a second-strike group just after the main fleet enters. Tried doing this with III, attritions more of a problem.

Luckily there are no mark-V shredders... hehehe... I was actually disappointed when I found this out.

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Offline dotjd

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2012, 05:59:37 pm »
My thoughts.

Triangle Ships
All fine.  Fighters die quickly and their effects are hard to notice in a pitched battle, but when they're paired up against small things or things they have a bonus against, you see those things melt.  Missile frigs don't seem to get a lot of love around here (idk why), but their range is very useful and they always seem to be the last thing standing.  Plus their shots (and thus, what they kill) are very visible, which makes giving them credit easy.

Things like space tanks, bulletproof: more triangle ships.  Nothing more needs to be said.  Note that the zenith bombers aren't polycrystal, which is a blessing (fewer things tend to annihilate them) and a curse (can't touch fortresses).

The Maw
Amazing.  Probably my favorite ship.  Early-mid game they are completely unstoppable.  Not even starships effectively remove one enemy ship from combat every one-two seconds, even from under force fields (eat your heart out, plasma siege).  I haven't had the chance to play around with them late-game, when fleet sizes scale way up, so I expect them to be a little worse then.  But not that much worse, since you still have... what, 20? of them, more if mk. v maw fabs exist.  They do have the unfortunate effect of making battles suddenly turn catastrophic, as when one gets popped it dumps out a whole bunch of ships, but those ships weren't firing on you before, so it evens out.

Armor Rotter
That's a lot of armor damage.  Big things die noticeably quicker when these guys are around, which I appreciate.  They seem rather expensive though, esp. since you would probably be doing more raw damage if you had a different ship type.  I don't mind getting these, they're neat.

Shield Bearer
My fleets tend to last a good 20-30% longer (very rough estimate) when these guys are around.  They act as a force multiplier.  Good stuff, although when you're actually in battle it's really depressing to see their shields deplete immediately.  They also mean you have to keep your fleet together, making both x and v-moving a lot less useful.

Munitions Boosters
Incredibly good.  Unsung facts: not only do they do really good damage to missile frigates, they have the range to hit them.  My major problem with them is that, every time I see them, I always get tempted to invest 10k into the zenith/spire starships instead (I would love to hear how well the starships do at attack boosting your fleet late-game, for those who've had the opportunity to try).

Sniper
A+ on defense.  The thing that makes me hesitant is that I have no idea how to use them on offense.  Moving them into a system seems to aggro most everything, even though they don't seem to be actively targeting inactive ships?  Also, invading a system defended with these reminds me of how broken blade spawners were a few months ago (I got the game just before that was patched, fun stuff).

Beam Frigate:
Underwhelming when trying to conquer planets.  But vs waves or things like the fallen spire chase sections, they obliterate lines of ships at once, and at long enough range that often the AI doesn't get to fire.

Elec Shuttle:
They get better the harder the battle gets.  DPS is great, but they don't have benefit of focus fire, which means that their dps doesn't actively deplete the AI dps, meaning you'll take more damage in the interim.  Idk if I'd pick them as a starting ship, but they are very welcome from an ARS.



Ships I actively avoid using:
Gravity Ripper: why do both these and Gravity Drains exist?
Teleporters: Aside from hunting down things with retreat range, I have never found a use for any of these.  I usually play with teleporters off.
Infiltrators: Their main use seems to be murdering power generators or command stations.  The AI unfortunately has none of the former, and the latter you can substitute raid starships for.  They don't do enough damage to really take out fleet ships under forcefields (a single laser or flak guardian would probably murder a whole cap by itself).
Space Plane: No damage.  I thought I was really clever when I saw their bonus against ultra-heavy and thought "hey, I could help my bombers against fortresses with these, since their radar damping makes the fortress unable to hit them!"  Unfortunately, the fort's armor ate the damage bonus wholesale, so the bonus to ultra-heavy is basically a sick joke.  They maybe saved one or two waves of fire from the (only mk. 1) bombers.  Better than the other spammable cannon fodder (go away, laser gatlings, you slow the game down too much to be worth your low dps) in that they survive more, but that's about it.
Younglings.  Ugh.  Wish there was some way to turn hybrids on without also turning these guys on (if I made a Mantis suggestion for disabling Younglings in ship type selection, would anyone vote that up?). Maybe I should try them again now that they've been buffed a bit.



Ships that sound interesting and I need to try sometime:
Spire Stealth Battleships and Blade Spawners: Their stats look incredibly good, but only 5 per cap?  I can never bring myself to select them, because their numbers are so limited.  Dunno how they actually play; they seem to be getting some love, so maybe I'll finally try them out soon.
Vampire Claw
Mini-rams
Tractor Platforms
Paralyzers
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 07:40:23 pm by dotjd »

Offline HellishFiend

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2012, 06:15:02 pm »
I havent used infiltrators since the AI had turrets. I seem to recall that taking down turrets was their prime use. Do they have a prime use now? Are they good against anything? If not, perhaps that would make them a good nominee for worst ship in the hands of the player....
Time to roll out another ball of death.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2012, 07:13:41 pm »
I think the infiltrators need help too, but I just want to point out a few things:
1) PRO: They do a surprising amount of engine damage in mass
2) PRO: Their m/c cost is so insanely low they actually are just as good cannon fodder as Fighters
3) CON: They are touted as having "armor piercing" attacks, but only have 150 armor piercing.  Standard Fighters say nothing about their attacks being armor piercing, but have 750 armor piercing.

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2012, 11:21:52 pm »
Can this thread be stickied?  I wish I'd had it when I started out and I'm pretty pleased to have it now.

Also:


Younglings.  Ugh.  Wish there was some way to turn hybrids on without also turning these guys on (if I made a Mantis suggestion for disabling Younglings in ship type selection, would anyone vote that up?). Maybe I should try them again now that they've been buffed a bit.


I strongly recommend giving them another go; with commandos especially I find I can sometimes wipe a few Mk IV planets off the map in the first hour, and they continue to be great horde rush forces from there on.  With tiny costs and super-fast production you're churning out fairly powerful fighters as fast as the AI can shoot them down.  I think tigers' lifespan has been buffed too, so they should be a lot easier to use than they were.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2012, 05:44:33 am »
I think tigers' lifespan has been buffed too, so they should be a lot easier to use than they were.

They have, and cost reduced.  If I have to get a youngling, I want tigers.  Bomber super-spawn ftw.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2012, 09:13:37 am »
Yea, younglings are different, but commandos and tigers can be pretty straight-up useful for spam-raiding (tigers vs guard posts are a favorite of mine).  Nanoswarms are just hilarious,  and can do an enormous amount of disruption on an enemy planet, though they're perhaps still not as useful as a bonus type should be, since they're one of very few (perhaps the only) bonus type that is pure "utility" and nearly no dps.

Vultures can help a lot on the second half of killing anything big, though I'm not sure if the numbers are favorable enough in general.

Weasels have a pretty good bonus-dps and can siphon off quite a bit of enemy firepower from hitting the rest of your fleet (they attract missiles).
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Offline Diazo

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2012, 11:11:39 am »
On something of a side note, I am currently doing an overhaul to the wiki, which a part of will be individual ships getting their own pages.

I am leaving space on the pages for comments exactly like the ones in this thread.

I only have a single page ready to go, since I'm going alphabetically it's the Acid Sprayer.

If you guys can keep this in mind when posting comments, it will allow copy-pasting straight into the wiki.

Note that the wiki requires a log in as there have been spam problems in the past. It is pretty easy to get a log on if you PM via the forum and ask however.

D.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 02:27:23 pm by Dazio »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2012, 11:22:11 am »
A wiki page has appeared!

What cap-scale and combat-scale are those stats (dps, etc) from?  I balance from high-caps epic-4x-combat-style since that's what the code starts from and shifts from there, but I'm guessing players will be more interested in normal/normal.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2012, 11:24:32 am »
Oh, yes.

All wiki pages will default to normal/normal with any comments specific to other play modes added in where appropriate.

There is going to be a note about that on the top level pages (once I get around to making them).

D.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2012, 11:33:52 am »
Excellent work on the wiki!  Give these images a try, see if you like them.  If so, I'm willing to screen shot all the bonus ship types, basic starships and turrets.  If you'd prefer a different base color, that's fine.  I picked dark green somewhat arbitrarily.

Offline Diazo

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2012, 12:01:15 pm »
If you are willing to do that it would be great.

I was not able to find the icon in a format I liked myself so being able to add that to the pages will be a nice addition.

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The Ship Strategy Conversation
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2012, 12:09:01 pm »
Are the .png's in the game folder not suitable?
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