Arcen Games
General Category => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: Valorian_Nova on October 24, 2012, 06:25:35 pm
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I have a challenge for you guys. I am on a snake map and I am a little puzzled at how best to handle this situation. I encountered the First AI homeworld and the wormhole I have to go through to enter the system sits next to a Core Wrath Lance Guard Post. The problem lies in the fact that the last shield generator I need to kill before I can go after this AI lies just beyond the AI homeworld. This means that I need to sneak a fleet as well as at least one colony ship past that AI homeworld in to the next system to blow up a shield generator so I can take this guy down. To complicate matters further I also need to destroy an AI Core Gravity Reactor post sitting by the exit wormhole. It appears that the Wrath Lance Guard Post is close enough to tachyon my cloaked ships. I do have mirror ships which I think I can get in there without worry of the Wrath Lance Guard Post specifically wiping them out although that leaves them to fend for themselves from everything else on an AI homeworld. Anyone have a good strategy for this?
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Cloaker + Transports. You just need to take out the tachyon post on the wormhole.
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I just took out the guard post on my side of the system. Something is still detecting me in there and the Core Wrath Guard Post seems to be the only thing near me with any tachyon detection and it has a range of 2000. I am pretty sure anyway that is what is detecting me when I go in there. So cloaking through the system may be a no go unless maybe I set it off first then send a cloaked fleet through. I may have enough time for them to recloak before it fires again. hmm... Have to try it.
Actually it may be a go with a little micromanaging. I seem to get detected about 50% of the time I go in there. Which means I might be just on the edge of it's tachyon range so if I catch myself right as I come through I may be able to pull it off. I will let you know how it goes.
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Does the AI have Sentinel Frigates or tachyon microfighters? Those both detect cloaked units.
Check the Wrath Lance's tooltip. Does it mention decloaking at all?
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All core guard posts should have tachyon if I recall.
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No, they don't have tachyon fighters or Sentinal Frigates. It has to be the Wrath Guard post since it has a tachyon beam emission with a 2000 range. Actually even if I managed to get passed the wrath guard post with cloaking that would still leave the AI Core Gravity Guard Post that is basically a super charged black hole generator. It even launches fast moving but short lived drones to slow my ships down. I posted a new save where I moved my front line just outside the AI homeworld. I have a couple plans for this.
The first one involves taking out the tachyon guard post then cloaking some of my fleet through the system and use them to attack the Gravity guard post.
The second one is to use spirecraft jump ships to try to get through the system. Basically to try to jump a small group of powerful ships plus a colony ship through the system and try to take out the command station in the next system and try to seed my station there long enough to destroy the shield generator. I fully expect to lose it right afterwards.
I could also try to build the spire cities and get the capital. Let them try to do the job for me.
I will try these just to see if I can pull any of them off.
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The second one is to use spirecraft jump ships to try to get through the system. Basically to try to jump a small group of powerful ships plus a colony ship through the system and try to take out the command station in the next system and try to seed my station there long enough to destroy the shield generator. I fully expect to lose it right afterwards.
Is AI Homeworld 1 on alert already? If it isn't and the construction time isn't longer than the basic level 1 command center, I recommend trying to construct a Radar Jammer Command Station if you anticipate any significant delay between getting it up and destroying AI Homeworld 1 as any sufficient time spent with that world on alert will generate core level reinforcements you might otherwise be able to avoid.
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Yeah the AI Homeworld is on alert although not for long. I still haven't researched it but I am going to build a radar jammer now. Fortunately I still have 10k of research left over.
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Sounds like you are all set then, I look forward to hearing how it goes.
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Would transports work, or do they get obliterated by the Wrath Lance post before getting anywhere?
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Actually transports with a cloaker seemed to work at least to get me close to that Core Gravity Guard Post. I unloaded my ships and took it out fairly quick. Only problem was that I did lose all my ships in the process so that will take awhile to replace but it's doable. Once I do I can go in and run cloaked transports through the system. and take the one on the other side. I should be able to hold it at least long enough to take out the shield generator. I think I will see if the Jump Ship idea would have worked as well so I am going to save and reload to test it.
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Behind enemy lines? No reinforcements possible? Sounds like a job for Enclave Starships!
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Behind enemy lines? No reinforcements possible? Sounds like a job for Enclave StarshipsThe A-Team!
Fixed ;)
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I pretty much sent in the A-Team here. ;) I softened the system up with my champion then sent two transports worth of ships in there including 5 colony ships and 11 engineers. They had the station built almost instantly. Then about 10 seconds later it was destroyed but at least it was enough to get the shields down. Now all I have to do is take this guy out.
Just captured the system behind the AI homeworld although I had it for less than a minute. Just long enough to blow up the shield generator. The jump ship idea failed miserably since gravity effects and black hole generators are two different things. At any rate now I can attempt to assault the AI homeworld now.
That cloaked transport strategy perhaps is a little too effective. ;D While it is most effective against the Gravity Guard Post due to the fact that you can close within a 2000 range, well within range of all your ships weapons, before it releases those gravity drones that slow you down even further it can be effective against other Core Guard Posts as well. I think this is a new strategy to add to the arsenal of tactics here.
At any rate I should be able to bust through eventually. The planet is on alert now and has nearly 3,900 ships in there. Although I almost hope they come through. I have a botnet golem there underneath the shield of my spire fortress. It stays fairly well protected and the wormhole is well within range of it's weapons. It nets me a bunch of instant converts. It's a fun combination. At least until the devourer golem comes through and spoils the party. :P
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I'm hoping for your sake that those 3900 ships aren't core ships, otherwise your in for a nasty surprise :o
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They were not core starships fortunately. I did manage to win that game although I do offer a piece of advice. Unless you want a real challenge NEVER play a snake map with core shield generators!!! While it's still doable as I proved it's also a pain in the rear or at least start off in the center of the map so the AI homeworlds are likely on the ends. I stupidly started on one of the ends causing that one AI homeworld to be in center cutting me off from the other shield generators I needed to take out although I must admit it does force one to get creative. Live and learn.
Thanks for offering some advice. I really appreciate it.
Valorian Nova
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Yup. Generally that's a mistake you only make once :) . Congratz on the win!
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Now that the ai blankets tachyon coverage everywhere on its homeworlds, I wounder what you do.
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Now that the ai blankets tachyon coverage everywhere on its homeworlds, I wounder what you do.
That's only if it has an eye, but yea, it's pain.
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Now that the ai blankets tachyon coverage everywhere on its homeworlds, I wounder what you do.
That's only if it has an eye, but yea, it's pain.
BTW, did you see that post where eyes were getting like a >50% spawn rate or something? It was guessed it was doing the because each eye type is considered one "choice", thus roughly *5 (or however many core eyes there are) the chance of seeing a core eye at all on the homeworld.
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Yes, I saw it :)
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Now that the ai blankets tachyon coverage everywhere on its homeworlds, I wounder what you do.
That's only if it has an eye, but yea, it's pain.
Considering it is not a brutal pick, it is in effect always there. So its safe to say on high difficulty in practice all ai hw blanket tachyon coverage.
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Considering it is not a brutal pick, it is in effect always there for anything but the most offense of ai. So its safe to say on high difficulty it is a fact.
No, it is a brutal pick.
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I have an ai hw with a core grav reactor, wraith lance post, and ai eye.
Does the ai hw get three brutal picks now for offense ais at 9/9? Or those core grav generators not brutal picks?
EDIT: Second ai hw has teuthida, wraith lance, and ai eye.
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3 sounds right, iirc.
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That HW must really not like you.
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3 sounds right, iirc.
Just curious, when was it bumped up from two posts to three posts? For a very long time it was two posts for a fact, and I can't find the update that changed it.
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That HW must really not like you.
Given that I had to load up a half dozen random games to find a single hw without an ai eye, I don't see how its not liking me in particular. ;D
Given that the ai now gets three brutal picks and picks an ai eye at a very very heavily tilted range, in practice it still is almost a fact that without explictly basing your map choices based upon ai brutal picks you won't have at least one hw that blankets tachyon coverage.
<Nice hard spirecraft penetrator nerf.>
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<Nice hard spirecraft penetrator nerf.>
Thank you ;)
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<Nice hard spirecraft penetrator nerf.>
Thank you ;)
Your welcome, but my current complaints is that I win games by launching surgical champ waves (that never return) with the occasional reinforcements of allies and or fleetships.
Penetrators have gone from " a limitted last resort" to "no resort at all"
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Once again, I'd like to point out that penetrators were over-nerfed when they went from can get from common asteroids and perma-cloaked to must get them from rarer asteroids and decloakable (this happened a long time ago, and I pointed this out then as well). They should of lost one aspect or the other. With both lost, they are a bit too weak for actual "deep strike penetration" uses, certainly too weak to justify a rarer asteroid for.
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Once again, I'd like to point out that penetrators were over-nerfed when they went from can get from common asteroids and perma-cloaked to must get them from rarer asteroids and decloakable (this happened a long time ago, and I pointed this out then as well). They should of lost one aspect or the other. With both lost, they are a bit too weak for actual "deep strike penetration" uses, certainly too weak to justify a rarer asteroid for.
For one penetrator (I) you can get four (!) rammers.
The 4 rammers cap wise have more HP, damage, and speed. The only things the penetrators have are cloaking and range, and current AI HW mechanics negate that.
I have no need for a penetrator perviously aside from exo waves (which spire craft can cause, no less!) and core guard posts. Now, penetrators are good for countering the things they created to begin with!