Author Topic: Starting Ship Type Dilemma  (Read 4635 times)

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« on: January 16, 2011, 08:43:14 pm »
I'm having trouble picking my starting ship.

What I want are speed and firepower, but no ship seems to really deliver on both.
Raid starships, sure, but those are pricey and fragile; and starships anyways. And not even among the starting selection, so WTH.
I tried to fulfil my wish by starting with the Cutlass, since their 14k DPS looked really high; but in the end they were too slow and too fragile to really serve any purpose I could find for them.

Historically, I most often used to go with the Zenith Bombard, since it deals hellish damage...but sitting at extreme range, sniping away at the enemy with half-minute reloading periods isn't really all that exciting. And since their ammunition type also refuses to do damage to most targets that you'd usually like to use such artillery ships against...well shucks.

Tried Vampires, but their damage is too low to feel satisfying. Tried the Stealth Battleship, and was very happy about having something immune to ion cannons - but it's too slow and too weak to be actually useful. Tried Sentinels, but was bored with sniping. Tried raptors, was very happy about their speed, then very unhappy about their lackluster power.

Is there no ship in the starting selection that can reach an enemy in a timely fashion and then deal noticeable damage?

Humans, aid me!


PS: Off-Topic, but is there some way of screwing with the files/settings/cheats to increase damage and reloading speed for all warships? (basically the same as the difference between "epic" and normal game speed setting, just MORE of the fast and dangerous. The game still feels a little slow to me.)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 08:49:15 pm by Shrugging Khan »
The beatings shall continue
until morale improves!

Offline UberJumper

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 08:47:47 pm »
Try eyebots.

They have damage, ion cannon immunity, high cap, shoot through shields, and cloaking.


Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 08:50:51 pm »
Too little damage! More power to the guns!

EDIT: I once tried to cram a cap full of Cutlasses into a transporter and use that as a fast-moving, high-damage unit...turns out there's too many things with blade immunity for that to work on its own.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 08:54:32 pm by Shrugging Khan »
The beatings shall continue
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Offline Mithror

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 03:44:20 am »
Autobombs? =)

They definitely have speed and firepower!

I'm quite indifferent to what ships I can choose usually, but my friend is hard to please in this regard! He loves doing high damage from afar (like frigates), so I suggested bombards to him. Well, no, actually the previous game the AI suggested bombards to him ;D

Problem with bombards is: they're now useless against guard posts due to radar damping (and the command station is immune to it), so he couldn't really assault from afar which made us start a new game where he picked snipers. Less damage, less of an awesome feeling, but effective.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 06:32:07 am »
I tried autobombs once, but ended up running low on ships because too many of them were shot down or failed to kill effectively...a huge drain on resources, that was  :o

Really, I just cant stand seeing a ship shoot at something and nothing happening. I keep thinking "What are you throwing at them, cotton!?".
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 06:43:02 am by Shrugging Khan »
The beatings shall continue
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Offline Sunshine!

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 12:00:23 pm »
(the below is assuming you're playing with the most recent beta versions, otherwise it doesn't apply)
I like Raiders and Laser Gatlings.  Laser Gatlings, per cap, do more damage than fighters, but are slower, and raiders per cap do slightly less damage than fighters but are faster, have better bonuses, and have full armor piercing.  Zenith Chameleons can also deal out pretty decent damage, but I've never really liked them (I don't really go for bomber style ships).  Neinzul ships I really like, but take a little getting used to - I would rank them at Weasels(1), Vultures(2) maybe, Tigers(3) maybe, Commandos(4) (they could really use another bit of a boost IMO). Nanoswarms don't count because they're so... different, but they're still a lot of fun.

Offline Red Spot

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 12:50:47 pm »
speed and firepower[/b

This may sound strange, but I like to think in alternatives ....  ::)
-sentinal frigates (their payload probably gets there before 'fast ship' do)
-shield barers (speed, why? Just move in the fleet and wack what needs wacking with minimal to even no loses)
-mk2 star-bombers (speedy enough, can take the beating of a fleet, clears entire planets of posts/starships before the AI-fleet can catch them)

Since last game I have personally become to love shieldbearers, if used properly they are such a huge asset with "micro'd" fleets. (dont leave them on agressive/FRD or they suck and make sure to turn of auto-kite or your fleet will end up outside their protection)

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 12:58:53 pm »
Neinzul ships I really like, but take a little getting used to - I would rank them at Weasels(1), Vultures(2) maybe, Tigers(3) maybe, Commandos(4) (they could really use another bit of a boost IMO). Nanoswarms don't count because they're so... different, but they're still a lot of fun.
I can't get used to the Neinzul ships. Maybe something is wrong with my playstyle, but the self attrition just kills them for me. (bad pun not intended, but left in now that I noticed it) Do you send a transport along with every attack so they have somewhere to retreat to? Or always bring in mobile builders and throw up that Neinzul storage thing the name of which I can't recall right now? When I unlock a fab with them, they usually end up just staying on that planet as a guard force, since if I try to send them anywhere else they're usually dead by the time they get there, and I don't like the idea of building a bunch of transports to ferry them around everywhere. It doesn't seem worth the tradeoff in micro-management, even though they are awfully cheap to build.

Offline Sunshine!

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 04:31:16 pm »
There are a couple of methods to use with Neinzul (and this is by no means an exhaustive list):

1.  "Rampage" - Use them like autobombs, is the essence of this.  Get a couple space docks with a couple engineers, and tell the space docks to produce ships on FRD, and give them a waypoint that's at the planet you want to get to.  Ships will build, go off on FRD, and as soon as they see an enemy they'll start attacking.  You don't need to worry about losses really, because they're so fast, and so easy to reproduce, and they're relatively tough.  Do not build a regen chamber anywhere, otherwise the Neinzul will retreat and end up on your planet and just sit there, and you'll be wondering why you're not spamming Neinzul anymore.  I'll use this method if I'm running a multi-planet start and have the resources to blow.

2.  "Mixed" - build a Neinzul Regen chamber on your most forward (or most likely to be attacked planet), and rally all your produced Neinzul to that planet.  Group them and send them on attacks, and when they get to 30% health (even if they're on a nearby planet without a regen chamber) they will retreat to the regen chamber, and will go on FRD on that planet when they're done healing at the chamber.  This is the method I'll use if I'm on a single-planet start, and the Neinzul were my starting ship.  It keeps costs down (especially with the auto-retreat) and makes for an effective defense as well, since you'll already have a pile of Neinzul retreating in front of any large AI counterattack.

3.  "Cold Storage" - for minimal micro, you'll want to unlock Mk2 transports (mk1 transports will work, but not recommended).  This would be for somewhere mid-game, when you want to make a pretty far deep strike using Neinzul.  Just pile all your Neinzul into the transport regardless of what their health is (only works effectively with mk2, since it heals the neinzul instead of just halting their attrition like the mk1), and then send them off to attack.  Chances are you'll want to scrap any regen chambers you have on your planets while this is happening, because the neinzul will never make it all the way back, and may end up angering a lot more AI ships than you'd want during their retreat.

The third method is going to be the most micro intensive, the first one requires no micro past changing the destination on the factories, and the second one requires no micro past what normal ships would require though it does need to be kept in mind that you'll never be attacking with a full force.  Honestly, it would be really nice if the main fleetships had an option to turn on a "retreat at x% hitpoints," (MRS used to have space tugs for that, but those never worked) but that's probably bordering on making it too easy for players to avoid losses.

Offline Reality

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 06:15:24 pm »
I'd really like to see an option for neinzul to treat mark 2 transports like neinzul regenerators (or whatever they're called) - I mean, you've got this ship right next to them that will heal them, but they don't seek it out when they get low on hp, even if they were just released from it. Seems like they'd be much less micro intensive if you could use transports like portable neinzul hives.

Offline Sunshine!

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 06:49:30 pm »
The logic wouldn't work - you'd need a separate bit of code to say "if the youngling enters because it's at 30% health, then autorelease the youngling when it's at full health," otherwise the transport would end up just dumping all the ships back out as soon as they're at full health, or you'd end up having to manually dump the younglings out as a group.  You'd still end up microing then, because either the youngling goes on FRD when it comes out of the transport (to go back on the attack), or it just sits there when it comes out of the transport, and either way you're going to have to constantly reselect the younglings to reissue the order to the ones that are just getting out of the transport.

Offline Red Spot

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 03:32:12 am »
I'd really like to see an option for neinzul to treat mark 2 transports like neinzul regenerators (or whatever they're called) - I mean, you've got this ship right next to them that will heal them, but they don't seek it out when they get low on hp, even if they were just released from it. Seems like they'd be much less micro intensive if you could use transports like portable neinzul hives.

Some wants it A, the other B, some things are best left with a bit of micro :)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2011, 06:58:26 am »
That's not a bad idea, actually...

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 09:20:29 am »
Or add mobile regen chambers maybe.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Starting Ship Type Dilemma
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 11:32:02 am »
Exactly!

 

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