So what do I do next?

[Junuxx]

I'm doing my first serious campaign (after the tuts and some botched attempts) vs 2 level 6 AIs. I took some nice planets, a level IV factory, some advanced research stations, etc. Cleared the guard posts two planets bordering both of the AI home worlds to enable an approach without alerting the home worlds themselves.

However, despite being at full fleet and starship capacity, the home worlds appear overwhelmingly strong. I could attempt an assault but losses would probably be huge. I have a feeling I'm not very developed, with MkIII/IV fighters and bombers, and MkII Raid and Flagship starships, but nothing too exciting for offense besides that... So I see a few options here and I'll really like to hear some opinions from more experienced players. Take the 2 remaining ARSs (I have 3) and get more knowledge first? Is it worth the additional AI progress? What to do with that Mass Driver? Get the Fabricators on Uvsuo? On should I just go for the homeworlds at this point? Priorities?


I control the green planets, the red ones are the AI homeworlds.
Yellow dots indicate potential targets, green dots are my beachheads/turret groups on enemy planets.

Targets:
- Uvsuo has Beam Starship, Anti-Starship Arachnid and Translocator Fabricators. (I already have Core Impulse Reaction Emitter, Bomber Starship, Anti-Starship Arachnid, Core Raider and Experimental Engineer Fabricators)
- Desyo has an ARS, is relatively easy to reach, but is defended by an Orbital Mass Driver
- Rochumond (top left) seems very hard to reach but has a more lightly defended ARS
- AI homeworlds. Quongorsav and Isamasic have no guard posts and no Ion Cannons left.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated!

[RCIX]

Dump enough knowledge into transports and MRSes if you don't already have them. Buildup your cap of all fleetships that you have unlocked, plus 2-3 MRS and as many transports as you need to hold all of that (plus a few decoys) Edit: bomber starships as well (those should fare well against forcefields) . Ship it all to Michun, then send it to the nearest AI homeworld. Scrap all of the transports as soon as you get there (to dump all of the ships at once). From there, simply order everything to attack the home command station, and hope it works. If it does, lather rinse repeat for the other homeworld. If not, grab some of the ARS and some more knowledge to upgrade your fleetcaps (hoping you get a bomber type ship like Chameleons if you have the Z Remnant or Anti-Armor ships), then try again.

[Junuxx]

Yeah I have MRS and Transports. It surprised me how efficient Transports are (comparing to units with similar transport functions in other games).

Any reason to point me to Michun instead or Orchr where I've been preparing and which is in striking distance of both homeworlds?

I suppose I'll just give it a try, thanks.

[superking]

why do you have multiple MKII reactors?

[Junuxx]

why do you have multiple MKII reactors?

How can you tell from my screenshot, and what do you mean?   I have some MkII reactors because they seemed more cost-efficient energy producers than MkIII ones?

[Winter Born]

why do you have multiple MKII reactors?

How can you tell from my screenshot, and what do you mean?   I have some MkII reactors because they seemed more cost-efficient energy producers than MkIII ones?

Mk 2 are the most efficient single reactor
But one of each per planet is better than stacking 2 or more of any one type.

Not sure what exactly superking meant by his post

[x4000]

Some randomly-organized notes/advice:

- That bomber starship gives you an edge on the AI home planets, specifically against their force field, fortress, and actual core command station.  You can really use that to your advantage.

- Your AI Progress really is not all that high.  I tend to me more like 500 when I go for the first AI home planet, but I tend to ride a little high on that.  If you are concerned, you can always cap some more data centers if any are around (that's easy to raid with starships), and then the extra AIP from your other planets is no big thing.

- I actually really disagree with RCIX about bum rushing the home planet command station, that's likely to get you killed and to give them way too much chance to reinforce.  I tend to take it in waves against the home planet, and hit one or two of the guard posts per wave (assuming that I die with each wave).  Play styles vary, but if you attack the home command station then the ship cap on that home planet stays at max, and the ships from all those guard posts will attack your fleet simultaneously.  With the bomber starship you do have an edge that might make that possible to do, but I still wouldn't recommend it; the other problem being that as soon as you kill the command station, those guys are going to go kill your command station if they can, so killing them first is helpful.

- I don't think RCIX had any particular reason for suggesting one home planet over the other, I certainly don't have any reason for suggesting that.

- I'd definitely consider taking those other two ARSes and getting the knowledge from their planets, too.  Having mark III/IV frigates at the very least might be helpful.

- Those other fabs aren't all that exciting for this point in the game, but I guess the translocators could be interesting when attacking the home planet (can't remember if that affects core stuff or not).

- The Mark II reactors are great, they are the preferred things to build (as you say), as long as you don't have multiple of them on a single planet.  Not sure where superking's comment was coming from, maybe wrong thread?

- What are your other fleet ships?  I didn't see any mention of your special unlocked classes.  Depending on what those are, some of them might be preferred for unlock instead of the frigates.  And whatever you get from the other two ARSes might prove to be awesome or might prove to be not that great, but they will give you the knowledge from the planet at least, and also some extra mark I chaff to suck up enemy fire.  That can help increase the survivability of your higher stuff.

- You ought to be able to reach Rochmund from Rinhalu with transports.  Same with Deyso, actually.  They look equidistant to me, and so if you have enough transports it should be no worries.

- When it comes to the orbital mass drivers, that's something to treat just like an ion cannon: attack it first with stuff that it can't kill (like all your ships other than starships), then bring in the ships it could kill.  Simply sending in a transport next to it with bombers, fighters, and frigates should let it get finished off pretty quickly, and then you've got a free hand for your bomber starships and such.

Hope that helps -- good luck!

[Junuxx]

Great advice, thanks!

That bomber starship gives you an edge on the AI home planets, specifically against their force field, fortress, and actual core command station.  You can really use that to your advantage.

When I look at that ships stats I see an extremely expensive ship with high HP, but mediocre attack, range, speed, reload speed... In fact attack/range/reload speed are identical to a MkIII Bomber. Is it just the hitpoints and 5x simultaneous shots that makes this ship great, or what am I missing?

What are your other fleet ships?  I didn't see any mention of your special unlocked classes.  Depending on what those are, some of them might be preferred for unlock instead of the frigates.

I got MkI Bulletproofs, MkI Parasites (love em!), MkI Tachyon MicroFighters and MkI Zenith Bombards (also awesome). Some good ones I suppose, but finding a synergetic ship combination instead of just massing everything I have is something I find quite hard at the moment :p

You ought to be able to reach Rochmund from Rinhalu with transports.  Same with Deyso, actually.  They look equidistant to me, and so if you have enough transports it should be no worries

Deyso is one closer and only 2 from a much-travelled route (Ickci). I hardly pushed toward Rochmund at all so that would be harder going. Besides, I prefer getting the survivors home and I doubt the transports would survive 3 hops out of supply. But I'm probably getting too afraid of casualties when I get the feeling I'm in an impasse.

I'll try finishing them off tonight. First, some work to do! :p

Oh and hmm I think I accidentally increased the Auto AI Progress some time. It's at +15 per 30 minutes but I read somewhere that 1 in 5 minutes is the default. Totally unintentional...

[x4000]

Great advice, thanks!I'll try finishing them off tonight. First, some work to do! :p

You bet!

That bomber starship gives you an edge on the AI home planets, specifically against their force field, fortress, and actual core command station.  You can really use that to your advantage.

When I look at that ships stats I see an extremely expensive ship with high HP, but mediocre attack, range, speed, reload speed... In fact attack/range/reload speed are identical to a MkIII Bomber. Is it just the hitpoints and 5x simultaneous shots that makes this ship great, or what am I missing?

They also have the standard bomber-style bonus that makes them great against that sort of thing.  You can export the multipliers if you want (hit F3 while on the main menu of the game, then Ctrl + Alt + F8, then the game will close and you'll have a bunch of xml files in your Data folder next to your save folder -- see the file path at the bottom of your settings screen for specifically where to go on your OS), but the essence of it is that these guys are specially tailored for taking out hard targets.  I forget the exact stats on the mark I ones, they aren't amazingly overwhelmingly effective, but they add a lot to your existing bomber complement.

What are your other fleet ships?  I didn't see any mention of your special unlocked classes.  Depending on what those are, some of them might be preferred for unlock instead of the frigates.

I got MkI Bulletproofs, MkI Parasites (love em!), MkI Tachyon MicroFighters and MkI Zenith Bombards (also awesome). Some good ones I suppose, but finding a synergetic ship combination instead of just massing everything I have is something I find quite hard at the moment :p

Oh, wow, you've got a ton of awesome stuff there!  With the parasites, if you had the higher marks of those, combined with your MRS you'd be in really good shape with them -- very synergistic.  And the Zenith Bombards also have some bonuses against hardened targets to some extend, so those would be excellent for both turret clearing (without getting your shorter-range guys pasted) and for attacking the big stuff on the home planets.

You have to hold the bombards back until the wormhole is clear so that they can be brought in without getting completely killed right off, but then you can have them cap a guard post at range, which then makes the AI ships free so that they will come attack you where you stand, rather than you having to go attack them in the middle of all their turrets.  Then the bombards can finish off all those turrets from range, again taking no damage, and you're attacking the AI homeworld both faster and with fewer losses.  They are expensive, though, especially if AI ships slip through the rest of your fleet to get at them.

I think you've got a couple of excellent potential combinations right there, with parasites on the one hand or the bombard route on the other.  Various players here would probably suggest one or the other, I don't have any particular preference.  The bombards might require more micro to do really effectively, I guess.

Besides, I prefer getting the survivors home and I doubt the transports would survive 3 hops out of supply. But I'm probably getting too afraid of casualties when I get the feeling I'm in an impasse.

Assuming you are on 3.120 or higher, that would indeed be a one-way trip.  But, that's okay!  Despite the fact that your transports would not survive, it's only stranding your guys there for a while.  You'll need to send over a colony ship anyway to capture the ARS (and the planet) with that.  And then you've got a supply source right there, so you can either repair transports or build new ones (on that planet or elsewhere) to ferry your guys home.

With all the goodies you already have, though -- the bombards and the parasites -- I don't know that you really even need the ARSes, though.  Might make more sense just to do whatever is easiest to get some more knowledge and then build up one of those two lines (or both, if you want to be really OCD about it ).  Those are some seriously good ship classes you already have, and since you have already captured some really impressive stuff via fabricators (and made some good starship unlocks), it seems like the main issue you have at present is not enough fleet ship unlocks. Knowing what your other classes are changes things more than a little.

I'll try finishing them off tonight. First, some work to do! :p

Good luck!

[superking]

why do you have multiple MKII reactors?

what the hell? I posted this in a completely different thread, what is it doing in here  

[x4000]

why do you have multiple MKII reactors?

what the hell? I posted this in a completely different thread, what is it doing in here  

I wondered if that was what happened. 

[Ktoff]

Hey Junuxx,

not that important but i recommend strongly using the altplanetnames.txt file to have more distinguishable planetnames. The random planet names give some good results, but you also end up with Quiafrtho and Aosuhsek...


I am with Chris on the subject of ARS. If you have not unlocked transports already they could help you achieve your goal as they make bypassing enemy defenses comparatively easy.

Concerning the OMD on Desyo, if your defenses can take it, i like deep raiding to capture those OMDs. They can be an invaluable asset if the AI employs starships. You take a transport and drop bombers+ a bit of support next to the command station and blow it up. If you don't face starships you might as well use the same tactic to take out the OMD. The planet has not been alerted yet so this should be comparatively easy and you will limit the amount of reinforcement on that planet (i think only special forces still get reinforcements) This will free a lot of ships... hence the need for defense. Depending on what you brought you flee and watch the freed ships get crushed on your defenses or you quickly build a command station somewhere further away from the action and defend it.

You might also encounter OMDs on the homeworlds, so watch out..

Also: I really like friendly corridors so i would probably take Ickci just to feel good.

Orchr is a good position to launch your attacks, but usually i try to avoid putting the core planets (the planets surrounding the homeworlds) on alert, but then i also usually do not bother to clean out those planets as thoroughly as you did.

Cheers

[x4000]

not that important but i recommend strongly using the altplanetnames.txt file to have more distinguishable planetnames. The random planet names give some good results, but you also end up with Quiafrtho and Aosuhsek...

Heh.  Hey, I wrote that random naming algorithm!  I rather like the results, overall.  If some planets were originally based on alien names, it makes sense, no?

Orchr is a good position to launch your attacks, but usually i try to avoid putting the core planets (the planets surrounding the homeworlds) on alert, but then i also usually do not bother to clean out those planets as thoroughly as you did.

I pretty much always alert the core planets on alert, and never bother clearing them out much, but transports just let me breeze through them (mostly).  Since I do repeated waves on their home planets, that proximity is important to me, but I know a lot of people are more in your line of thinking.

[Ktoff]

Heh.  Hey, I wrote that random naming algorithm!  I rather like the results, overall.  If some planets were originally based on alien names, it makes sense, no?

And it is the best and most awesomest random name editor ever!!!!1one! :-P And as long as you play in single player it is not that bad (except when you have two weird similar sounding planet names). In multiplayer, however, this can get quite confusing. I mean... how do you even pronounce Quiafrtho? :-D And even if there are many reasonable nice random names, names like the latter example confuse the hell out of me

My altplanetnames is a weird collection of tv characters, food, movies, cities, places and other random stuff. It does not make a whole lot of sense, but when a wave is about to hit Batman, there is no confusion about which planet is meant :-D

[x4000]

I know, I was just joshing.  I did my best to make sure that vowels would show up at appropriate places, etc, but there's only so far that can really go, heh.