Author Topic: Unpleasant surprises.  (Read 4143 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 03:39:29 pm »
It's having trouble parsing it for some reason, then.  Not sure exactly what to do about that, I don't know enough about OpenOffice.  Clearly it is generating everything given the filesize, but the OpenOffice is just failing to open it.
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Offline belgarath

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 04:30:07 pm »
Glad to know that the multiplier data is accessible, but we've strayed WAY off topic.  The real question is if the electric shuttles are going to be toned down from their above-and-beyond-starship-level damage vs the super expensive frigate ship types.  The whole thing where a single one of them can easily one-shot a swarm seems to be a major unbalance in mechanics.

Like kjara said, you can't even USE frigate types when the ai has shuttles. 
Here's a scenario.  Let's say your frigate swarm is in a lightly defended ai system trying to flee through a cleared out wormhole. There's nothing there.  The ai receives minimal reinforcements in such a lightly defended system. Only, on the frigates' approach, a single, tech one electric shuttle appears and NUKES the ENTIRE, several hundred thousand crystal worth swarm of frigate class ships by ITSELF. Almost no survivors. This has, in fact, happened to me.

While I realize that the shuttles may need to be strong against SOMETHING. As an AOE ship, imho it is ridiculous that they can one-shot anything.

After that happened, I also decided to try using the shuttles for myself, and they are a HUGE advantage.  They were toned up, obviously. The ai will super rarely have more than a dozen of them in a system, but for a player with the entire swarm, it makes warheads... unnecessary, shall we say? On a related note, the lightning turrets have got NOTHING on the damage a group of shuttles can put out.  A group of lighting turrets can't make the entire human fleet virtually dead on the first volley.

I'd also like to say that given the eminent danger that they pose to all ship types and turrets (oh, i didn't even get INTO how a small group of less than a dozen clear infinite numbers of turrets out all by themselves), ought they not be shoved WAY higher up on everyone's target priority list?  I'm using the TBS pause to micro-manage nuke them (before their second shot) manually because they stand out as a major threat above and beyond all other ship types (even starships, does that seem fair?).  If they are to remain so dangerous, can that target prioritization be included in the decisions that ships make automatically? I think it's reasonable.

On a related note, x4000, what did those simulations spit out for shuttles? That multiplier absolutely HAS to come down.
Will they become less of a death sentence and more of a nuisance to frigate class ships in the near future?

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 04:34:09 pm »
I believe they wernt an issue until their range 'boost' (fix really, but I call it a boost) a bit back, but ever since then I have hated dealing with them.

As per the excel file, upload it to google documents and see what googledocs makes of it.. I've done this with other documents with good results (including some rather complicated ones)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2010, 04:37:49 pm »
I thought I already mentioned it, but maybe not in this thread -- the 3.013 version that will be out today has WAY less of a multiplier on the shuttles.
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Offline Black

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 07:03:38 pm »
Thanks. I can't wait :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2010, 07:08:08 pm »
Will be out in minutes. :)
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Offline Temper

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 02:00:10 pm »

- For ships with stacking penalties (electric bombers and sentinel frigates), those have an ideal number per planet (two or three, usually), and then degrade -- to a point.  Past that point, they don't get any more penalty and so they start becoming collectively more powerful again.  Often the AI uses them past that point, whereas it is better for humans to keep them below the first degration point.


In many of my games the AI will use Sentinel Frigates far too much, lowering them, often, down to only six percent efficency.  Is the logic correct for how the AI uses ships with stacking penalties?

Offline RCIX

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Re: Unpleasant surprises.
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 05:36:27 pm »
Yes, see this topic.
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