Author Topic: Raiders  (Read 1736 times)

Offline MaxAstro

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Love, Peace, and Calvinball
Raiders
« on: February 24, 2010, 11:28:55 am »
I love good raiding units - Raid Starships, Space Planes, etc are some of my favorite units.  So not too long ago I thought I'd try out the unit that is, after all, named for raiding, and see how it compares.

To be honest, I was not impressed.  Raiders are ~incredibly~ expensive, especially considering their massive unit cap.  With a price like building a bomber and a frigate at the same time, it's hard for my economy to generally support them - much less cap them, which for just the Mark I variant costs something like 240,000 of each resource.  And the worst part is they are extremely fragile, to the point that I generally lose a fifth or more of them on any given raid, which again forces me to spend large amounts of resources replacing them.

The point of a raiding party is basically to save you resources.  By taking out a strategic target inexpensively (compared to sending a full fleet and getting bogged down in a real battle on that planet) raids allow you to save money for the more important things.  Raiders, however, seem entirely counter to this idea.  Between their high cost, huge cap, and relative frailty, Raiders tend to cost me more money than any other bonus ship I've yet played with.

So I guess my question is, what am I doing wrong?  How do I turn Raiders into as effective a raiding unit as the devastating Space Planes?

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Raiders
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 11:31:37 am »
It's possible they are out of balance at the moment, that may be worth discussing.  Raiders were too powerful, then too weak, then too powerful... at the moment they may be too expensive.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline MaxAstro

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Love, Peace, and Calvinball
Re: Raiders
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 01:31:42 pm »
Hahaha, it says something of my trust in your game balance that I didn't even consider they might actually be out of whack; I just assumed I was somehow using them wrong.  :)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Raiders
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 01:32:42 pm »
:)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Velox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Raiders
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 03:17:15 pm »
Hahaha, it says something of my trust in your game balance that I didn't even consider they might actually be out of whack; I just assumed I was somehow using them wrong.  :)

     You were putting them in win-move mode, right? 

Offline RCIX

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,808
  • Avatar credit goes to Spookypatrol on League forum
Re: Raiders
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 03:22:52 pm »
Hahaha, it says something of my trust in your game balance that I didn't even consider they might actually be out of whack; I just assumed I was somehow using them wrong.  :)

     You were putting them in win-move mode, right? 
As opposed to what -- lose move mode?
Avid League player and apparently back from the dead!

If we weren't going for your money, you wouldn't have gotten as much value for it!

Oh, wait... *causation loop detonates*

Offline belgarath

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Raiders
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 04:18:53 am »
I have to agree that they're REALLY expensive...  it's 1200 metal and crystal EACH for the t3 variant.  That puts them at about double the cost of cruisers.  Yet they have an EXTREMELY low hp value for how much they cost. A lightning turret swarm (which the AI is OH so fond of creating) can nuke them all in one wave of fire, which, for a swarm costing just over >>900,000<< metal AND crystal (t1-t4 capped)... is quite a loss

They are one of the premier turret murderers in a full swarm, in competition with the ever-wonderful (and similarly ship capped) infiltrators which aren't NEARLY as good at killing units, but simply murder force fields. Infiltrators are super cheap... raiders are not. For my economy to support raider losses I have to build them almost exclusively and keep bombers around for those pesky force fields :)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Raiders are my favorite ship. They can approach emplacements and merrily destroy all of the units and buildings alike.  I hate to say it, but you probably shouldn't dock their cost too much, since raiders are strong vs. pretty much absolutely everything.  There is nothing that is completely out of reach for them to kill minus heavy defenses.

But DANG are they expensive.

Offline Saan

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Raiders
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 11:15:27 am »
I'd have to look back at my save, but the only time I've won on diff 7 was with raiders.  They seemed VERY powerful that game - sure, expensive, but they ahnillated pretty much anything.   Also, their speed allows them to consolidate pretty quickly.

I would just bring in all of my raiders, all of my space tanks, all of my raid starships, and all of my speed boosters. I'd leave the speed boosters at the wormhole, and set the rest of them on FRD mode, and they would roll over the system with impunity.

Maybe it had more to do with the Space Tank/ Speed Booster combo (120 speed space tanks is....crazy) but raiders at 150 speed is also crazy.