Newbish questions about Science Labs, K-raiding, fabricators

[Harry]

Hi all,

I'm returning to the game after a long break.  I see that knowledge raiding has been changed.  Some questions:

1. How do I build a Science Lab Mk II?  I don't see an option to research it.

2. I dimly recall being able to knowledge-raid with regular Science Labs.  No longer, I gather.  How does one knowledge raid now?  I've read some of the wiki entries about hacking, but that seems to be about grabbing stuff off an enemy ARS.  What if I just want to raid generic knowledge from a hostile system without spending the AIP to take that system?

3. What's the difference between an advanced factory and a fabricator?  I captured one of the latter, and it makes Fighter Vs, whereas the Adv Fac seems to make IV-level ships.  Is that the difference -- IV vs. V?

Thanks!

[keith.lamothe]

1. How do I build a Science Lab Mk II?  I don't see an option to research it.

It's unlocked from the beginning, no need to research it.

2. I dimly recall being able to knowledge-raid with regular Science Labs.  No longer, I gather.  How does one knowledge raid now?

You have to build a Science Lab MkIII (possibly called knowledge hacker in the game now, I forget) on the target planet; it's a stationary unit.

I've read some of the wiki entries about hacking, but that seems to be about grabbing stuff off an enemy ARS.  What if I just want to raid generic knowledge from a hostile system without spending the AIP to take that system?

You have to build a ship-design hacker for getting more flexibility in your choice of what to get from an ARS.

3. What's the difference between an advanced factory and a fabricator?  I captured one of the latter, and it makes Fighter Vs, whereas the Adv Fac seems to make IV-level ships.  Is that the difference -- IV vs. V?

Adv Factories let you build MkIV of any fleet ship type you have the MkIII of.  Fabs let you build MkV of one specific type regardless of what you've researched.

Thanks!

I hope it helps

[Harry]

Thanks for the replies.  So it sounds like knowledge-raiding -- raiding solely for generic Knowledge, not hacking a specific ARS -- is a lot harder than it used to be.  The wiki says this about how the two types of hacking provoke the AI:

Each Knowledge Raid is roughly equivalent to about two and a half of the first ARS Ship Hack, and about two-thirds of the Hacking the second Ship Hack will cause combined with the first.

In my current game, I'm more interested in generic knowledge than in doing an ARS Ship Hack, but apparently one knowledge raid is the equivalent of 2.5x one ARS Ship Hack (for the purposes of AI provocation).  So these days, people at most raid one system for "generic" knowledge?  Maybe two?  It used to be I'd routinely raid every hostile system for knowledge, heh.  I'm not complaining -- I like the added challenge and complexity.  Just trying to make sure I understand.  Do I have it right?

[Wanderer]

Basically yes.  You have a choice between K-Raiding, Ship Hacking, and SuperTerminal Bronco Rides.  In general, you don't want to go past two ship hacks worth of hacking points, the AI tends to get a bit grouchy if you do.  As in Thermonuclear Holocaust grouchy.

So basically 3 K-Raids = 2 Ship hacks (ship hacks go up in cost for each additional one, K-Raids are linear).  However, you don't start paying the real price on the second ship hack until AFTER you hack it.  The ship hack costs are included on completion.  K-Raiding is done per point.

The 'raid the universe' was part of why the new components were included.  Somewhere around here is an AAR I did where I K-Raided *everything* during a high end game, which started a bit of that discussion and the folks around here came up with this very neat system.  That's against the purpose of K-Raiding.  K-Raiding was intended, design wise, to allow a struggling player to get some free K to get 'back on the ball' if they were losing the slow slide against AIP.  It was never meant to allow someone to tackle the entire tech tree at AIP 140. :-)

In general, you can get away with two ship raids reasonably easily and then pick a planet (at most, two) that you can isolate the wild mage rolls from in a corner of the galaxy and raid it.  If you K-Raid early you'll find ship-hacks will be very difficult.

[Hearteater]

Also note that if you bring a Science Lab (Mark I or II) into a system with an ARS you can see what the 3 ship types available are in advance.  The left-most ship type is the one that gets unlocked if you don't ship hack.  So you can check an ARS before claiming it, and decide if you want to Ship Design Hack or not.  Science Lab II is very good for this because it has cloaking.  Remember, DO NOT claim the system with the ARS if you want to hack it.  You need to hack it while the AI controls the system, then take the system to be allowed to pick one of the 3 ship types.

[Harry]

Thanks very much!  That clears it up very nicely.  I agree, it's a good change -- I used to knowledge raid like crazy.  Now knowledge has become a more scarce resource, which makes the game more interesting.

So do people get through the entire tech tree now, or do you finish most games with much stuff still locked?  I kinda hope the latter.  I like having tough decisions to make. 

[Bognor]

Definitely the latter 

[Harry]

Excellent!  Thanks.