Author Topic: New player AAR  (Read 4135 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 02:49:59 pm »
Yea, I think it's quite winnable in your situation particularly if you get a Fallen Spire capital fleet together: then you can just hammer through the stuff on the way to the AI HW (though I don't suggest going by way of the long-alerted core worlds if you can help it).  A full 5-city-plus-capitol FS fleet could probably still give you victory against 2 or 3 thousand AIP, let alone 7 or 8 hundred.  Though if those golems/spirecraft are on hard their exos (which scale with AIP, unlike FS exos) could be pretty nasty.

Whether you would better enjoy a new game without this huge albatross on you, I'm not sure :)
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Offline Tridus

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 08:00:04 pm »
Hi. :) I play a lot like you do: taking a ton of territory. I'm currently generally trying to learn how to take less and play more "normally", but in this case...

You said you hadn't built the Spire Cities yet. That was your mistake, really. If you'd built them earlier, by now you'd have enough power from them to challenge the AI directly. I'm not sure you can do it at this point (the AI will launch attacks when you start building cities), but if you can then you could still win if you can get some cities up.

Aside from providing you with a strong defense from the cities themselves, the true power of the Spire Cities is that they let you build the Spire fleet. If built properly, you can get 2 (occasionally 3) shipyards per spire city. That means each city gives you two Spire destroyers and a Spire cruiser. Those ships have absurdly powerful photon lance guns (the Cruiser's is over 3 million a shot)... and they mount modules. Crazy modules. The Cruiser flies around with shields, laser batteries, sniper rifles... and heavy beam cannons. Yeah, that big planetary gun? That ship can mount two of them. It's awesome.

With the amount of territory you have, you'd have had no problem by now having the knowledge to unlock everything you need. If you get five cities, you can build the galactic capital and unlock Spire battleships & dreadnaughts. The dreadnaught can basically mount a plasma siege starship as a gun. It hits for millions, and does area effect damage. It's a one ship fleet. All these ships (even the destroyer) also mount shields, which means other ships can hide beneath them and fire from safety. If that's not enough, one more building after that unlocks an alternate win condition where if you survive for 30 minutes against crazy AI assault... well, something cool happens and you win. :)

This morning I beat a 6000 ship carrier fleet at a planet (I've got a game going with AIP 600, just to see how far I can go ignoring AIP) using the spire ships from two cities (5 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and a bunch of frigates), a couple of Flagship mk II's, a Botnet Golem, and an Armored Golem. Those weren't mk V ships in the carriers, but it does give you an idea of the firepower that Spire cities let you bring out. The idea behind the cities was to allow someone to play like you did here: to try to conquer the map and assault the AI directly.

You could try using some warheads to weaken the carriers and attack them with your fleet. If you win that, rebuild your fleet and start doing spire cities ASAP. That's the only way I can see to win this one. (Alternately chalk it up as a good learning experience and try again!)

Here's a couple of other tips that might help, though it might be too late for this game:
1. If you don't need to, don't put core worlds on alert. You can avoid that by not taking a planet next to one and using transports to attack i the end, or if you do take a nearby planet, build a Warp Jammer. You don't need to neuter a planet that's next to a warp jammer unless something else is putting it on alert.
2. If you're not going to build boatloads of Spire Cities, you need to take less stuff. You don't need to take every capturable. Focus on some key ones and ones that are easily defendable.
3. If you're trying to take as few planets as possible, turn Spire Civilian Leaders off. If you're taking tons of planets, leave them on. (With few planets they're a liability since you can't likely capture enough.)
4. Aside from using transports, you can also use the warp gates (on the CONST menu) to get ships where you need them to be. Those are special buildings that whenever a ship of the given type is built, it warps to the gate immediately. If you want to attack the AI from a world that's cut off from your territory, you can use transports to get there and use the warp gates to replenish any ships you lose by having them teleport straight over. Pretty handy when you launch a homeworld assault and you've got a beachhead planet near the AI but don't own anything else near it.
5. Using ships like leech ships and parasites work best if you bring other ships. Those ships themselves don't do high damage, and need the help. As Keith mentioned the reclamation damage "jumps" around if it doesn't do enough on one ship, so it adds up onto other ships and you'll reclaim more with fewer losses. The Flagship line is a particularly useful one, since it grants an attack boost to the other ships. (The Botnet Golem doesn't need the help, but it does tend to need an escort if reclamation immune ships show up.)
6.
Quote
All activated extras are on easy and 3/4 max with the exception of botnet golem  which for some reason I put on medium.

Well, the Botnet on medium is worth 100 AIP by itself. So that's something to think about (as compared to easy). Also, 3/4 max setting depending on what it is could be good, or it could be bad.  If it's something like the Fallen Spire setting, setting it up to 7/10 will make the AI's counterattack more difficult to deal with vs the default of 4/10. Same thing with hard golems, 1/10 is the easiest and 7/10 would be quite difficult. For helpful things, the higher numbers make the help more powerful.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 08:02:25 pm by Tridus »

Offline Cinth

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 08:52:16 pm »
The ones that post their AARs around here are either computer-destroying, 16 homeworld megaslaughterfests or 10/10 doomgames
That would be my AAR combo :)
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Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Tridus

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 09:21:01 pm »
Yeah, most of the AAR's are crazy. Mine was something more along this difficulty level. :)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2013, 09:57:19 am »
Mine is also absurd, but mostly because the hunter plot don't care what difficulty it is, its going to absurd the absurd anyway. :P

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2013, 10:33:11 am »
The ones that post their AARs around here are either computer-destroying, 16 homeworld megaslaughterfests or 10/10 doomgames
That would be my AAR combo :)
Hence the quote in your sig ;)
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 11:25:03 am »
mild, medium, and strong
mild, medium, strong and Kahuna


The reason Parasites and Leeches are bad alone is that they do very little damage and it takes forever to kill anything. They're better as support ships. Try using Parasites vs Missile Frigates.. Parasites have Neutron Hull and Missile Frigates do bonus damage vs Neutron.. same with Leeches vs Bombers. When you combine Leeches and Parasites with other ships.. the other ships work as cannon fodder for the Parasites and Leeches.. so they can survive longer and do their job in the background.. they're very good as support ships. So.. Parasites alone.. they do very little damage, they're vulnerable, everything that is reclaimed is also destroyed almost immediately

Farming neutered planets with Parasites and/or Leeches isn't very time efficient. I recommend farming Waves and Special Forces. Tractor Turrets under Force Fields + other turrets and fleet + Parasites/Leeches = fleet size doubled. Or almost.. depends on.. stuff.

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Offline Platypusp

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Re: New player AAR Completed! Finally!
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2013, 06:08:58 pm »
I have now finally completed this after taking every planet, golem, ARS, fabricator and unlocking almost every tech - driving AIP up to 1150 or thereabouts, including a reduction of 1500. I did not intend to take everything, but as I'm often a bit indescive and still haven't really got the knack of target selection and had fallen spire on it... just ... sort of happened. Having said I completed it isn't strictly true as I got to a point where the Spire Uber fleet and my champion were tearing apart the last of the homeworlds when lag became crippling even with all graphic options on minimal.

So I started a new game with a few more extras (although I reduced my economic advantage), added in human colony rebellions, marauders and astrotrains. I chose to fight a support corp with hybrid hives, and an avenging beachead tank, both on diff 7. Hoping to reduce the crippling lag at the end I also reduced ship caps to low all golems are on hard 1 (which I chose on the understanding that using them will not increase AIP and minimize retaliation) . I've now done some preliminary scouting, neutered all worlds adjacent to my homeworld and taken one which I now wonder if I should have left neutered and been prepared to load into transports every time my fleet needs to traverse.

In the attached screenshot:
P0 - known co processors
P1 - Regen golem and 4 metal 4 crystal
P2 - Hive golem
P3 - Armored golem
P4 - ARS, Dyson sphere and civ leaders
P5 - Planet cloak
P6 - Art golem and star beam fab
P7 - zenith medic fab

I have also found a couple more data centres and civ leaders.

Special ship is space plane, starting unlocks - engineer 2, scout 2, decloaker, mini forts, star beam and star zenith (with ship cap on low I need all the starships I can get). Last time I chose the K expensive MRS early but this time, with medic fab available I haven't so far.

My preliminary goals seem clear - take the cluster of golems and fabs. The proximity of AIP reducers is interesting - and helpful.

Suggestions



Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New player AAR Completed! Finally!
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2013, 06:13:14 pm »
it... just ... sort of happened
How many times do we have to tell you to not accidentally eat the galaxy?! ;)

As for suggestions, the plan sounds... well, sound.  Though you may find that beachhead plot a bit painful.  The trains too.
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Offline emperormao

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Re: New player AAR
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 09:01:14 pm »
I am having similar problems Op.

I wish there was an ai type that didn't turtle outside my chokepoints. I tried mad bomber and raiders, because they are supposed to be aggressive, but I am stuck with the same situation you are regardless of settings. And that situation is a passive AI that only attacks when it can (probably) win. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the ai should be reckless and die for nothing. But all my games are eerily similar to your situation. I expand, keep AIP down to around 200-300 at most, neuter planets, barely take out any planets ect ect. Yet inevitably, the ai slowly masses on my borders and eventually gets so big that I can't do a thing about it but watch as it grows even bigger. I can spend hours trimming the enemy ships outside my world, but sooner or later it it becomes impossible.

Given the fact the AI holds all the cards, it is annoying that it only ever employs one real strategy (no matter the settings).

But I think one of the biggest problems is NOT having a planet the AI can warp to. IF it can't launch a warp directly onto one of my planets, it will instead stock pile the warp troops into a border aggression force. SO late game when you start getting 1k+ warps, that are supposed to attack something but don't, the ai quickly snowball out of control as they end up massing ridiculous troop sizes despite AIP.