Author Topic: Need Strategy Advice?  (Read 31840 times)

Offline Revenantus

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2009, 01:03:35 PM »
Question:

What kind of destruction can i expect from a Nuclear Missile?

I have a sector next to my homeworld with 3 ! MK3 ion cannons, i can't even get 1 second of a view with sending spaceships through, i see the only chance in nuking the entrance, how i would go about this best? What apart from core ships and spaceships survives nukes? What about core turrets?

So basically, what on a DIF 10 World (lots of Core and MKIV and MK3 tech) will survive a nuke that detonates right after emergence (i don't want to cap the planet, and i can live with +50 for getting rid of that huge door stopper in front of my homeworld)

(This is a DIF10 / DIF1 Game) yes 1 AI DIF 10 and 1 AI dif 1

Edit: The main point of that nuke is to get rid of 2 Specops posts and the 3 Ion Cannons, if these were gone i could clean up conventional

Starships, Core ships/turrets, and Arachnids will survive. Everything else, including the AI Command Station, Command Posts, and Warp Gate will be obliterated.

The nuke will also destroy all resources at the planet and prevent you from building a Command Station there.

EDIT: It will destroy those Special Forces Posts and Ion Cannons, yep.

I refute your claims that I have edited this post.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:10:43 PM by Revenantus »

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2009, 01:07:41 PM »
Edit: Oy editing is cheating!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Edit: Thanks for the answer

Thanks a lot, on to building 2 of them buggers (yes, 2 planets in a row with 2 spec ops and 3 MK3 ion cannons posts, countless lighning turrets Core Turrets etc...)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:14:08 PM by eRe4s3r »
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2009, 04:03:26 PM »
Next question

Would it be worth to nuke 2 IV  planets owned by the DIF 10 AI and capture another 6-8 (mostly owned by the DIF1 ai) to create a complete closed off side of the map, with exactly 1 (yes 1) front (1 wormhole to enemy planet) literally about 12 planets all under my control (and with that, no more spec ops posts so no more patrols in this entire "arm" of the galaxy.

Or should i work around the 6-8 planets needed to reach that 1 world where i could unite it all and try to research raid as much as possible and take out IV worlds with lightning nukes and IV ships (should i ever find one of these fabs)

- Most importantly, does nuking change awareness in 1 or 2 hop away worlds? Because thats the other IV world ;p They are both in the way of unification

- The problem is, i calculate a progression of 350~ for the entire thing, and the DIF 10 AI is already tech 2 (i am at 52 progression) the DIF 1 ai is at tech 1

How bad does Progression of 350 make my stand at a single front with 1 DIF 10? After i capped those planets i should have about every ship type unlocked including all MK3s, but the price is that there is a big chance that there is no datacenter/research lab or anything else in those worlds. So i basically pay 350 Progression for uniting all my worlds to 1 frontal world - technically that sounds like a superb deal, i could pack one world full with all the turrets i'd ever need.... and just advance for deep raids and scouting expeditions beyond that.

Not to mention i'd be swimming in resources (they are really scarce atm ,p)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2009, 04:10:31 PM »
Would it be worth to nuke 2 IV  planets owned by the DIF 10 AI and capture another 6-8 (mostly owned by the DIF1 ai) to create a complete closed off side of the map, with exactly 1 (yes 1) front (1 wormhole to enemy planet) literally about 12 planets all under my control (and with that, no more spec ops posts so no more patrols in this entire "arm" of the galaxy.

Hard to say.  That will skyrocket the AI Progress, so it depends on the specifics of your map.  Sounds dubious to me, though.  But if the resources are worth it, then that's cool.

- Most importantly, does nuking change awareness in 1 or 2 hop away worlds? Because thats the other IV world ;p They are both in the way of unification

Any AI planets that border planets not controlled by the AI are on alert.  So if you take control of one of those planets, or nuke it out of existence, or just wipe the AI off and then don't do anything, then those next in line will be on alert.

- The problem is, i calculate a progression of 350~ for the entire thing, and the DIF 10 AI is already tech 2 (i am at 52 progression) the DIF 1 ai is at tech 1

Yeah, that might well bump the AI 10 up to tech 3, and the AI 1 will definitely go to tech 2, not that you really need to worry about them.  There's not one solid answer to this question in my opinion -- it depends on your playstyle as well as a lot of factors of the situation.  If you think you can pull it off, go for it, but it's definitely not without risk.

How bad does Progression of 350 make my stand at a single front with 1 DIF 10? After i capped those planets i should have about every ship type unlocked including all MK3s, but the price is that there is a big chance that there is no datacenter/research lab or anything else in those worlds. So i basically pay 350 Progression for uniting all my worlds to 1 frontal world - technically that sounds like a superb deal, i could pack one world full with all the turrets i'd ever need.... and just advance for deep raids and scouting expeditions beyond that.

All true, in general.  Of course, the AI Progress also affects the reinforcements, as does the number of planets you take from the AI, so you might find yourself on the business end of some nasty cross-planet raids in addition to very well-defended other planets from the AI.  But by the same token, if you have all the resources and stuff you need, maybe that won't matter.  As long as you can get a large payload to the AI home planets without setting them on alert too early, you're golden.  If you can't do that, you might want to focus on advanced research stations first.

Not to mention i'd be swimming in resources (they are really scarce atm ,p)

That certainly does always help.  Especially if they are going to be as well defended as you think they will, that will free up a lot of your forces for offense, which is huge.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2009, 04:27:50 PM »
Here is what i could gain.. the question is would the game still be winnable if i bump the DIF 10 AI to tech 3 given that there is no guarantee these few unexplored worlds hold an adv factory ;(

If there is another IV world i might even have to nuke 3 worlds - i can't research raid those so that cuts me off from painfully needed research points ,/ Thats also why i have to nuke them, i need these research points to get at least 1 MK3

I know its only playing at half-strength but so far i am having a really good run, except the dif 10 ai has MASSIVE patrols and i can not expand or even raid in those sectors (the green noname worlds draw a jaded picture, those are filled with 300+ blue ships on patrol)

Well, i think this might be the first game i have a chance of winning... even though its only "half the AI ,p" 2 ai's give me too much trouble ,(
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 04:31:23 PM by eRe4s3r »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2009, 04:50:15 PM »
Wow, I can see the attraction for taking those.  It looks like your scouting is really slim right now, which makes it very hard to make ideal decisions.  Are you positive the other planets that are in green and unexplored are all belonging to the AI 1, for instance?

If you can lock up that section, you should be a pretty good powerhouse resource-wise, but it there are a lot of unknowns there.  If it were me, personally my first priority would be the scouting of all those unknown planets.  It's pretty hard to formulate a good ballplan when you are blind, which is why CounterSpies are so nefarious. :)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2009, 05:43:49 PM »
Mhh i guess.. i really need to scout this stretch, even if i have to take my entire fleet with me... For all i know there could be a homeworld in that dead-end (that would be hopefully the DIF 10 one ;p)

My first nuke is done as well, now hopefully i won't accidentally scrap it *hopes*

At least battles now look really cool with my tuned explosions ;P

You know, in a sense AI war is not a RTS but more like a puzzle game. Given that i probably only get 2 more ship upgrades before a IV world blocks me i have to think really hard on where to put that

By the way, can one build fortresses in uncaptured planets?
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Offline Revenantus

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2009, 05:47:02 PM »
By the way, can one build fortresses in uncaptured planets?

Yes.

Offline x4000

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2009, 06:01:03 PM »
Mhh i guess.. i really need to scout this stretch, even if i have to take my entire fleet with me... For all i know there could be a homeworld in that dead-end (that would be hopefully the DIF 10 one ;p)

As a side note, you can quasi-predict where the AI home planets are because they tend to be as far away from you as possible.  That often gives lots of different possibilities that you have to explore, and when I play I frequently guess wrong where they will be (close to 100% of the time, honestly ;) ), but it can certainly eliminate some positions.

You know, in a sense AI war is not a RTS but more like a puzzle game. Given that i probably only get 2 more ship upgrades before a IV world blocks me i have to think really hard on where to put that

Yeah, definitely.  I felt the same way about the maps in Warcraft II, though, honestly, so I don't think it's unique to this game.  I think it comes about from having limited resources and a larger pool of actually-valid options, moreso than anything else.  In so many RTS games, it's most about short-term back and forth in pvp, or finding an ideal pattern to follow in comp stomps.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2009, 07:07:26 PM »
But what i really love is that you managed to make old stuff still viable (even extremely so) and require players to not drop old tech for new tech, but to have as even mixed fleets as possible (in terms of tech levels) this way the size of a fleet is a clear indicator of progression and players really start to handle their 1600 ship fleet with great care. (and i am always proud when i reach 800 ships heh) fleets of that size are not easily replaced... Which is a huge shift from standard rts games with set population caps.
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Offline Revenantus

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2009, 07:35:09 PM »
I agree that managing the population caps on a per ship type basis is a very elegant way of handling things in a game like AI War.

Most RTS games have a global population system that can often, though not always, result in the lower end units becoming completely obsolete as the game progresses, this absolutely never happens in AI War. You'll never find yourself in a situation where you're scrapping large groups of units to 'make room for better ones'.

I suppose you could argue that per unit type caps make less thematic sense than global population caps, but ultimately AI War is a game before it's a simulation. It'd be counter productive to actually damage gameplay purely for thematic reasons.

The only other major argument against it is that it doesn't force the player to consider their preferred ship type ratios on a grand scale, once the caps are filled everyone's fleet is essentially the same - In practice this isn't a particularly strong argument as ship caps are rarely ever maximized, at least for very long, so the player in fact does have to think carefully about their build ratios/orders when designing fleets in order to maximize their effectiveness.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2009, 07:52:13 PM »
The fleets are not the same right from the start though - everyone will have to choose which path he goes once he caps av labs , at least for the first 90% of the game, if you really reach MK3 in all and have all MK4 techs then you are basically LVL 80 with Tier 3 equipment (why do i know so much about WoW even though i don't play it?) and by then indeed, all fleets are "about the same" - Add to that that some players might go for flagships (now with movement damage boost a viable ship again)

Maybe some gameplay element can be thought up to diversify fleets a bit more, maybe super rare random stations which have unique ship types which are not gainable anyway else (maybe together with datacenter hacking or somesuch?)... Even so with the choice of the homeworld you get at least 300 ships which are completely unique to your fleet (unless you later find them in a ADV lab i guess ,p)

Even so no game is ever the same - the AI types are pretty diverse imo ;p I think its a lot cooler to have many different enemies than 60 races to choose from too...

Well i am quite taken by AI war, its.. weirdly addicting, just one more raid.. one more tech!
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Offline x4000

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Re: Need Strategy Advice?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2009, 10:27:58 AM »
Thanks guys, glad you are enjoying that aspect so much -- the per-ship-type-caps idea didn't come about until pretty late in the development of the game, and it was amazing how much that added.

I would also add that, as you start hitting your caps and then your fleet composition is "exactly the same," you still have the immense problem of how to distribute it.  In a game like Chess, for instance, you always have exactly the same pieces the entire time, yet it is fascinating and hugely variant because of the positioning.  My hope was to accomplish something similar here when the upper end of the unit caps get hit, which of course they almost never do, anyway, since stuff is always getting blown up.  Especially with the new cross-planet attacks, there is just no way to mass all your guys in one big blob, so some ships are going to have to be placed elsewhere in the galaxy.

Maybe some gameplay element can be thought up to diversify fleets a bit more, maybe super rare random stations which have unique ship types which are not gainable anyway else (maybe together with datacenter hacking or somesuch?)... Even so with the choice of the homeworld you get at least 300 ships which are completely unique to your fleet (unless you later find them in a ADV lab i guess ,p)

This is definitely going to be a huge focus in the expansions, actually.  A new "experimental factory" will allow access to some one-off techs that you can only build there (sort of like a more risky advanced factory, but with specialized ships instead of Mark IV versions of existing ships).  Also, there will be lots more capturables introduced through DLC and the expansions, although most of them are larger starship-type ships instead of fleet-style ships, but we'll see how that progresses.  Plus I'm sure many other ideas will come about in this vein... :)

Even so no game is ever the same - the AI types are pretty diverse imo ;p I think its a lot cooler to have many different enemies than 60 races to choose from too...

Me too.  With the different civs/races, I always find myself wishing that I could just customize them a bit.

Well i am quite taken by AI war, its.. weirdly addicting, just one more raid.. one more tech!

Always great to hear.  Glad it's not just me that gets addicted.  ;D
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