Author Topic: My 4600+ threats  (Read 4136 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 09:37:42 pm »
My games usually end with 0 remaining data centers ;p
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2010, 09:38:44 pm »
My games usually end with 0 remaining data centers ;p
Yea, the large IT firms have filed many complaints against you ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Stupidmoron

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2010, 12:53:54 am »
      A player should have the option to play at his speed not the speed of what you want us to.  I can understand a up hill battle for a snake map but still on normal it should always be beatable even if it take 400-600 hrs.  If you want a hardcore only set of players then go all out. 

      Why I don't like pvp games to begin with and it like alot the RTS's out there.  Add a option for the casual player to not have border aggro or a one based on the number of systems you take.  Time played should not be a factor for those who casual in there play style. 

     
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 01:22:49 am by Stupidmoron »

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2010, 03:48:21 am »
I'm not sure I altogether agree with that, 'moron. (Wow, talking to you by name sounds pretty confrontational.)

Being under pressure is part of this game's MO. Where's the fun in not being able to lose?!

That said, however, I don't see how an AI Modifier to turn off Cross Border Aggression could hurt (unless there's a technical reason not to do it).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 03:54:26 am by zebramatt »

Offline Stupidmoron

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 05:05:24 am »
     There are 3 forms of a attacks the wave, Border aggro, and cross planet.  Border aggro I think was once based off the AI lvl not time or planet limit.  When I wanted more of a challenge I had the AI +10 - +800%.  Like when I started a game I was doing 2 turtles lvl 10 without wave then steam forced me to update and broke my game. At the time I was going for killing godlike was winning 1 system at a time.  Then things like border aggro and some other things changed making the game to win Impossible. 

     Aspects of the game have changed to a point that really starting to feel like a broken game.  But then again my goal like trying to beat 2 lvl 10s while doing a 120 map alone be a insane thing.  But something like that should be do able but so insanely impossible that buy there still was a ray of hope. 

     Now something like normal = more micro management.  It seem be getting worse.  Going from my beloved TA to C&C and I hate C&C system of play.  I'm not against a good fight vs a AI.  I mean I love kill them vs pvp.  Because I know I can do something well but not others.  Like Build and defend I can do.  Track 8 battles defend and attack at the same time  and keep forces up is way beyond my limit to handle.

Offline RCIX

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,808
  • Avatar credit goes to Spookypatrol on League forum
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2010, 05:29:11 am »
I'm not sure I altogether agree with that, 'moron. (Wow, talking to you by name sounds pretty confrontational.)

Being under pressure is part of this game's MO. Where's the fun in not being able to lose?!

That said, however, I don't see how an AI Modifier to turn off Cross Border Aggression could hurt (unless there's a technical reason not to do it).
That's called a puzzle. Not bad, though i'm not sure if X is going for that here...
Avid League player and apparently back from the dead!

If we weren't going for your money, you wouldn't have gotten as much value for it!

Oh, wait... *causation loop detonates*

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2010, 08:20:12 am »
     A player should have the option to play at his speed not the speed of what you want us to.  I can understand a up hill battle for a snake map but still on normal it should always be beatable even if it take 400-600 hrs.  If you want a hardcore only set of players then go all out.  

    

Thats wrong though - playing on Snake is an advanced difficulty situation and you should have let it all on standard if you wanted easier play (save for Trains and timed progression increase which i also always disable). Particularly Snake on DIF7 is - HARD - DIF 7 is NOT easy or casual. In fact i couldn't imagine a harder map type than snake or spokes the less paths you have and the less methods to circumvent high threat areas the harder the game gets.

If you want to play Casual use positive handicap for yourself - +100% or +200% make the game easier for you but not for the ai. And set AI to dif 5 and easy-random and most importantly don't play on any non-standard map types ;P This games difficulty is directly related to the map
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 08:21:56 am by eRe4s3r »
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2010, 08:23:29 am »
Being under pressure is part of this game's MO. Where's the fun in not being able to lose?!
That's called a puzzle. Not bad, though i'm not sure if X is going for that here...
No, don't they have some other game that's a bit like that...?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2010, 08:42:22 am »
Just to re-echo the key thing here: if you want a game that you're unlikely to lose, don't play snake :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2010, 08:59:21 am »
This could easily turn into a big debate, and already seems to be trying to, but let's try to avoid that, eh?  I'm not going to engage in a debate on this, I don't feel it's a productive use of time.  But, to answer some of the questions here:

1. No, there like won't be an option to turn off border aggression, for the same reason there is not an option to turn off special forces, AI reatreats and counterattacks, the AI potentially breaking free from a planet when you cap the command station, etc.  Waves and CPAs are one thing, as they are major events of a very specific sort, but these various other AI mechanics are just how the AI gets any form of self-directed mobility.  If it's too hard, I suggest a lower difficulty.

2. In many ways, snake and other similar maps actually aren't any harder than the more open maps; and in some fashions they are easier than, say, Grid.  But that's assuming that you play certain styles of strategy (lots of deep raiding and planet hopping, etc), which clearly isn't the case here.

3. Playing against a train master is also somewhat shooting yourself in the foot as far as border aggression, etc, goes, because the train master is slightly more defensive than average, and on average the AI is fairly defensive.  If you want a really castrated opponent, play against Mad Bomber with no waves on; that guy hardly gets any reinforcements, and as noted earlier there's no recompense to the AI for the no waves modifier.

4. To the idea that you ought to be able to play a casual version of AI War at any difficulty level: that's seems kind of silly.  If you're playing casually, you're meant to lose at various higher difficulty levels.  As in, otherwise there wouldn't be any hardcore difficulty levels at all.  Difficulty 10 is not meant to be won by any more than the top 1% of the hardcore strategy gaming population.  Why?  So that those folks have something to do if they come play this game, since there is no pvp play.  

On the flip side, difficulty 1 is so incredibly easy it's meant to be winnable by anyone with even the slightest casual interest in the game.  At diff 1 the AI hardly gets any reinforcements, almost never gets the tempo, makes loads of stupid mistakes all over the place when it does attack you... etc.  If you're looking for essentially just a puzzle that you can go solve by going out into the galaxy and stomping on planet after planet without ever being attacked or there being any consequences, I suggest difficulty 4 or 5, or possibly lower depending on how easy you want it to be.  I'm not being patronizing; that's part of what those difficulties are for.

5. Lastly, there has always been a time component to AI War, even aside from waves.  The longer you take, the more the AI reinforces, and with border aggression that also has some consequences for you defensively after a certain point.  The higher a difficulty you play on, the more you see this effect; it's almost not noticeable on difficulty 1, and on difficulty 10 you must keep moving constantly.  You can play really long games if you want, at any difficulty level, but you just have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of what the AI does at any given level.  At the higher levels, letting your game go extremely long is going to make the AI extremely powerful.

I hope that information is helpful.  I think there are plenty of options to offer the sort of game style you're looking for, but I think you'll have to give up on the higher difficulties and the narrow maps if you're wanting a super slow, casual experience.  You're specifically enabling settings that are counter to that sort of experience at the moment.  Again, hope that helps.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Spymine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 03:39:32 pm »
     A player should have the option to play at his speed not the speed of what you want us to.  I can understand a up hill battle for a snake map but still on normal it should always be beatable even if it take 400-600 hrs.  If you want a hardcore only set of players then go all out. 

      Why I don't like pvp games to begin with and it like alot the RTS's out there.  Add a option for the casual player to not have border aggro or a one based on the number of systems you take.  Time played should not be a factor for those who casual in there play style. 

     

Level snake with two AIs Dif 10 and everything enabled should take you around 300 hours to win if you do it right (if there is no Scorched earth AI involved). And your threat in such a game will never ever go down to 0 after starting it.

Personally I also wouldnt recommend planet hopping with transporters since they are only good enough for 3 jumps after which they cease to exist (at least when using 3.120). What makes the snake level "easier" is that you have to kill all the planet one after the other, so no big decisions are required.

And use surgical strikes instead of trying to steamroll your way forward. A IV - IV planet combination can then be done within 20 minutes.

Offline Stupidmoron

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 03:48:39 pm »
   LOL spy it be impossible to beat with border aggro with snake if you get bogged once like with tractor on then your going to get hammered.  Like X4000 said longer your in game larger the force to vs you and how you defend lone planets.  I got bogged in 1 system within 2 jumps of my home.  Stupid system slower took out my advantage I had going.  Then began the slow death that was just on 7.  Like in my last game tractors have no weakness it took like 40 mins clear out 400 turret out a system.  But when they were clearing them I set to auto roam. 

   But I do think it is a mistake not have border aggro off option or at least a different system that less frustrating.  Like where the Border aggro just sent based on current AI hissy fit and send in the extras based on AI rate not sending in cores or even when  planet gets full option to 1/4 it reinforcements
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 04:43:05 pm by Stupidmoron »

Offline superking

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,205
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 03:59:22 pm »
     A player should have the option to play at his speed not the speed of what you want us to.  I can understand a up hill battle for a snake map but still on normal it should always be beatable even if it take 400-600 hrs.  If you want a hardcore only set of players then go all out. 

      Why I don't like pvp games to begin with and it like alot the RTS's out there.  Add a option for the casual player to not have border aggro or a one based on the number of systems you take.  Time played should not be a factor for those who casual in there play style. 

snake is sort of a joke mode, try 'simple'

Offline Spymine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 04:02:41 pm »
I am playing snake using only "simple" ship types but starting with 4 planets on a 120 planet map. My average threat is 14k - the AIs are level IV and V and I dont get bogged down. Atm I own 60 planets (15 are AI free) and I cannot kill the first AI HQ until !!!!!! X400 finally figures out why I dont get attacked by the avenger station" !!!!! (because I want to see how tough it is). AIP is at 1681.

So no - I dont get bogged down ;-)

Oh - and simple maps are too simple imho

Offline RCIX

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,808
  • Avatar credit goes to Spookypatrol on League forum
Re: My 4600+ threats
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 08:09:42 pm »
He meant simple map type, not ship types :)

There's also vines, grid, and complex...
Avid League player and apparently back from the dead!

If we weren't going for your money, you wouldn't have gotten as much value for it!

Oh, wait... *causation loop detonates*