Mine Layer Usage

[JoeFosterX]

When I check the "range" of the minelayer (with "z") does that represent the radius at which it will automatically rebuild mines?

Will they move across the map if in "roaming defender mode" (or whatever the equivalent is for non-coms {engineers, etc.})?

If they don't (I am at work so I can't check myself), how do people keep them alive when they need to be that close to the mines in order to be effective?

Just wondering if I completely wasted that 250 research .

[Spikey00]

I am pretty sure they will move across the map if they are set into roaming defender mode, and I am unsure upon the default range of which it will seek to repair mines.  I personally don't use mines, though. 

A tip would be for them to survive, have them posted further out AWAY from the direction of asteriods/base where the AI usually beelines towards, and give them enough room so that they won't be able to reach the mines in case enemy units still exist (but still be in range of them to repair them eventually).

[x4000]

Generally I pair them with engineers in order to keep them alive -- so two engineers and two mine layers for a giant minefield, for instance.  If there are turrets around, or other offensive ships, that will also draw the fire of the enemy ships since they (sensibly) prefer to target ships that they can hurt them before they target non-dangerous ships).  If the minefield is set up well enough, they'll be dead before they'd even start shooting much at your mine layers.

Yes, the FRD mode works to make mine layers cover the whole planet, too.  By default their range is 15,000, the same as engineers.  The shown range, if it is smaller and has a dotted line border, is an error in the version you are playing (that's fixed in upcoming 2.001O).  If it is a fairly sizable and unbordered circle, then that's the correct range.  But I think the mine layers may not actually show their effective range.  Generally speaking, if they are not in FRD mode then they will just hang out by the mines, anyway (since they repair them and then stop and wait there).  And if they are in FRD mode, then the range is irrelevant because they'll cover everything anyway.  Attack-move mode for both engineers and mine layers works identically to FRD mode for them.

Hope that helps!

[JoeFosterX]

That does help, thank you both.

Now all I want is like 10x the mine cap.  Are there "Zenith Mines" or something crazy like that in the expansion?

[x4000]

There are some EMP mines coming up in the expansion, and someday I do hope to put Area Mines into the game.  You can also get a larger cap of units and general by starting with multiple home planets if you really want them.  But, having too many mines on an individual planet will make the game run more slowly when there are lots of enemy ships there, just to warn you -- but the main reason for the cap is that that way you can't simply put a giant minefield at every hostile wormhole.  A bit too easy of a strategy, that!

[JoeFosterX]

Area mines are no joke.

Man, a ring of regular mines, then a ring of area around that... very nice.  What happened to that wave?  Oh, the mines killed them all, immediately.  

I dont know how useful this strategy is, but it is fun: Send a force field and a mobile builder through a wormhole, then along the edge of the field where fighters, or zenith autobombs are trying to fly toward the force field, build area mines.
Then move the field.

I believe that I saw my knowledge increase by 250 when I upgraded since I had purchased the minelayer -- nice touch that.


This will seriously increase my turtling abilities, now that I have 3060 mines at my disposal!

[x4000]

Yeah, hopefully this won't be too overpowered. Glad you're enjoying it, though!

[Spikey00]

("...having too many mines on an individual planet will make the game run more slowly when there are lots of enemy ships there...")

Addressed in 2.001X/Z, right?

--

Again, though, are ALL ships in the proximity affected by Area Mines/etc., the similar way Grenade Launchers work?  I would imagine having 1 mine damage potentially a thousand ships when they emerge from a wormhole be cheap--though I will have to see inside the game for actual results.

[x4000]

("...having too many mines on an individual planet will make the game run more slowly when there are lots of enemy ships there...")

Addressed in 2.001X/Z, right?

Not really, that was about the slowdown that mines cause just by existing if there are huge numbers of them.  If you stack too many mines all at one planet, and there are a ton of enemies, the slowdown caused by that is not particularly mitigated.  However, in most cases the "slowdown" is such that it won't even affect the frame rate at all on a midrange computer (since except in the largest battles, on a midrange dual core computer the primary is probably 30% idle or even more -- so in this case, it would just be dipping into that 30%, which I prefer not to do so that there is more buffer remaining for the larger battles).

So it's not something that has been addressed directly, in summary, and it's something that makes me wary, but it's not much worry with the current numbers of mines.  But if you stack all 3,000 mines on one planet, that might cause some noticeable lag if a lot of enemies come there at once.

Again, though, are ALL ships in the proximity affected by Area Mines/etc., the similar way Grenade Launchers work?  I would imagine having 1 mine damage potentially a thousand ships when they emerge from a wormhole be cheap--though I will have to see inside the game for actual results.

Yes, all ships are affected by area of effect ships.  I know you're concerned about this, but so far you're just giving theoretical arguments that it concerns you; in practice, I have never seen a problem with this yet because ships automatically spread out.  Also, you may not be aware, but when ships are fading in from a wormhole, they are invulnerable to being shot at until they are fully faded in, which also means that they are then more dispersed -- thus greatly negating the effects you are worried about.

On the other hand, you just reminded me that I don't think that ships that are fading in are immune to area of effect explosions (even though they are to regular shots), so there is some possibility for undue casualties there.  I'll take a look at that probably tomorrow night for that ZA release, and that should shore up any potential for wormhole-related abuse of AoE attacks.

[Lancefighter]

Also, as per cloaked units and area of effect attacks...


And. Perma-cloaked units? (wh guard posts?)

[Echo35]

If they don't (I am at work so I can't check myself), how do people keep them alive when they need to be that close to the mines in order to be effective?

Alive? Hah! You're funny!

Now that their health is somewhat decent I can actually use them effectively, but they used to be so crappy, I'd just build them when a wave came in and let them die next time. They were throw aways.

On a side note, thanks for implementing my turret layer idea and also making the remains a lot more durable. Minefields used to take so much micro I just gave up using them entirely. They weren't worth it. Now I can start using them again!