Metal & Crystal

[I-KP]

I don't play on an AI setting that's too easy for me (tend to play ~7.6 or 8 ) but after I've got a few planets under my belt Metal and Crystal concerns are about the furthest thing from my mind; I pretty much end up ignoring them.  Only Energy remains a consideration as only Energy defines how large my forces can be at any one time.  I know that technically Metal & Crystal drive Energy but in practice it's actually planet numbers that drive Energy (unless you go out of your way to colonise super-low resource systems).  Once I am 'established' on a map Metal and Crystal no longer play a part in the game for me (or maybe that's just the way that I play).

Could/should something be tweaked to give Metal and Crystal something of a lasting consideration?  I have a few ideas but I'm not going to suggest them unless other people also find that Metal and Crystal become transparent after the very early game.

[x4000]

For me, metal and crystal are always a concern, even though I'm upgrading to Mark II and sometimes Mark III command stations to try to get as much as possible.  This is generally in 4-player games, though, which are by nature a bit more tight on resources given that the planets are split up more.

[Spikey00]

Well, I had a very vague idea of having two productions of metal and crystal--one for normal, and one for rare crystal and metal (additional research/capital ships/structures?); effectively, this splits the resource up into four.  Of course, this complicates matters but it may be something to look at to diversify the resource role in the game.

EDIT:  Effectively, what this does is decrease the use of metal and crystal overall, but has players be wise about using the more rare resource that they have.

[Lancefighter]

thing is - resources are unlimited. Energy is a tad bit less so (more energy eventually becomes useless because of the energy plant stacking penalties)

You can always wait to get more metal/crystal, but your energy stays the same.
I dont really see the issue with this, in games such as supcom (iirc), metal is territory based, and energy can be quite literally made out of nothing (ok, it costs some metal to build a energy building, but no resource drain)
its similar, and by merely waiting, you can amass the metal you need to build what you want.
Granted,itss also a pvp game, so the other guy will probably blow you up if you just have metal sitting around not in tanks

[Revenantus]

It's the ratio of metal to crystal during the campaign that's the constant concern. I'm of the philosophy that if I'm accumulating either resource, then I'm not being aggressive enough (deciding on a baseline to avoid going below unless in an emergency is a separate issue). I generally want to avoid manufactories, as they're a net gain loss, so the availability of each resource influences my fleet makeup to a degree. I think that they still contribute to the campaign in that the number of metal/crystal harvest points on a planet is of interest and is still a factor I use when picking targets.

EDIT: Manufactories are definitely NOT a net gain.

[NickAragua]

Could/should something be tweaked to give Metal and Crystal something of a lasting consideration?

When I've gotten to the point where metal and crystal aren't as much of a concern, I'm plenty busy doing other things that I'm actually interested in, such as blowing stuff up, commanding large fleets and otherwise engaging in grand strategy. The last thing I need is having some overcomplicated resource scheme constantly getting in the way.

[I-KP]

Who said anything about there needing to being an overcomplicated resource scheme?

[x4000]

Who said anything about there needing to being an overcomplicated resource scheme?

I think he was really responding to Spikey.

[I-KP]

Oh.      

[x4000]

I am curious as to your ideas, in any case.  I can't promise I'll do them, but they might provide a more illuminating discussion in the meantime.  They might make good options at some point, anyway, or might work well for self-balancing that aspect of the game.  My concern is always not having enough metal and crystal, even with my command stations upgraded, but clearly that is not the case for everyone.  So something that helps people self-balance, e.g. spend that overflow (as Mercenary Space Docks were intended to do), might be a good idea in general.  If I'm too poor to use it I can just not, and if someone else is so rich they just don't know what to do, they can kick that on.  Or maybe you have some entirely other ideas, I don't know.

[I-KP]

Burning off the excess as Mercs might be the answer I suppose.  Trouble is they'll also take Energy which is still the only defining Resource.  (Do Mercs need Energy still?  I can't remember if they do.)

[x4000]

They do need energy at present, but it actually might be really interesting if they did not require any energy.  That might make them a lot more interesting in general, actually.

[Diazo]

I actually find this rather interesting, I'm usually on the other side of things.

I don't know if it's because I'm so aggressive with engineers assisting constructors or if I'm just overbuilding, but I'm always low. And this is with Mk3 Command Stations being the first thing I unlock.

I'll go through my saves and actually get some numbers, but in the (few) multiplayer games I've played, 99% of the time I have the least resources. That's including the fact that I usually have one or two more star systems then anyone else.

"Who wants this system? Oh, Diazo's low on resources, give it to him."

Having said that, I also don't (usually) find myself hitting a wall and being forced to stop so I can wait for resources to build stuff.

In other words, I find it about right.

Diazo.

[Spikey00]

All I know is that in most games I am still lacking of crystal, and I believe turrets need diversification with its costs because they all are crystal demanding.

[Baleur]

Could/should something be tweaked to give Metal and Crystal something of a lasting consideration?

When I've gotten to the point where metal and crystal aren't as much of a concern, I'm plenty busy doing other things that I'm actually interested in, such as blowing stuff up, commanding large fleets and otherwise engaging in grand strategy. The last thing I need is having some overcomplicated resource scheme constantly getting in the way.

Thanks. Its the vocal minority such as yourself that caused Dawn of War 2 and now the rest of the C&C franchize to completely abolish all resource gathering and base building, half of whats fun in a strategy game

Jokes aside (that wasnt a joke though), i agree on both points in this thread, for me metal and crystal is always a concern, but that is because i always have my factories set to infinite-loop all shiptypes, with their rally point at whatever hotspot I'm currently defending/assaulting. I love always having the fleet maxed and reinforced.
This playstyle makes for some drops in metal/crystal quite frequently, and i often have to use batches of 5 crystal or metal manufactories to switch on and off in order to balance income / usage.

However i do see how it can be irrelevant in the long term (huge maps), or if you capture alot of planets rather than trying to keep AI Progress down.
I suppose it just depends on your playstyle.