Master List of Ships

[Wanderer]

Is there a master list of ships somewhere I can use to do some data crunching with?  I started making my own but it's... painful.  I can keep at it if needed but if it's already out there somewhere, or if I'm able to extract it from one of the files, even better.

[Wanderer]

While we're on the topic, maybe someone can help me understand the idea behind how the Mirror is setup.



If inbound shots do 10x damage, doesn't that basically negate the armor stat?  Wouldn't it make more sense to make the mirror have 154,000 hp, same armor, have it give out 1/10 the damage of incoming shots, and allow it to absorb at least a little of the AoE and Missile Damage?

[Hearteater]

You can export all ship data to an Excel spreadsheet, see some instructions here.  I think there is a better explanation somewhere on the forum or wiki.  But that should point you in the right direction.  Note that the export isn't perfect.  It is missing number of shots and the ship caps for most fleet ships (since they vary depending on game settings).

[x4000]

Is there a master list of ships somewhere I can use to do some data crunching with?  I started making my own but it's... painful.  I can keep at it if needed but if it's already out there somewhere, or if I'm able to extract it from one of the files, even better.

Actually, the game itself is capably of exporting a nice spreadsheet with all of this -- just hit F3 to bring up the general debug menu, and then I think it's Shift+Ctrl+F8 or something like that.  The controls document mentions it as "export excel secondaries."  It's exporting that data from the actual game values, so as we change things in the game it's always able to export something exactly up to date, rather than it having to be a repository that someone maintains by hand (quite a task, as you've seen!).

While we're on the topic, maybe someone can help me understand the idea behind how the Mirror is setup.

If inbound shots do 10x damage, doesn't that basically negate the armor stat?  Wouldn't it make more sense to make the mirror have 154,000 hp, same armor, have it give out 1/10 the damage of incoming shots, and allow it to absorb at least a little of the AoE and Missile Damage?

Remember that the mirror deals back out mirror damage shots equal to the incoming damage.  I don't remember the specific interplay of this now (it's been a while, and we changed it many, many times), but the general idea -- I think -- is that the mirrors are taking in X damage from an attacker and then sending X*10 damage back to that same attacker.  But the mirror only winds up taking X damage.  Meanwhile, if the attacker has armor-piercing, then the attacker can do X damage to the mirror and then still takes X*10 back (but at least they did far more damage to the mirror.

Speaking more broadly, the reasoning behind a lot of that is that most ship types are poor at attacking themselves, so for the mirrored shots to matter much they have to be numbers-inflated.  But by the same token, the mirrors need some sort of weakness, so hence stuff that is armor-piercing fits the bill nicely under this system.

EDIT: ninja'd!

[Wanderer]

Actually, the game itself is capably of exporting a nice spreadsheet with all of this -- just hit F3 to bring up the general debug menu, and then I think it's Shift+Ctrl+F8 or something like that.  The controls document mentions it as "export excel secondaries."  It's exporting that data from the actual game values, so as we change things in the game it's always able to export something exactly up to date, rather than it having to be a repository that someone maintains by hand (quite a task, as you've seen!).

Ah, very handy.  Took a bit to find it after I used it but this is perfect, thanks.  Oddly though it doesn't have ship caps filled in.

Remember that the mirror deals back out mirror damage shots equal to the incoming damage.  I don't remember the specific interplay of this now (it's been a while, and we changed it many, many times), but the general idea -- I think -- is that the mirrors are taking in X damage from an attacker and then sending X*10 damage back to that same attacker.  But the mirror only winds up taking X damage.  Meanwhile, if the attacker has armor-piercing, then the attacker can do X damage to the mirror and then still takes X*10 back (but at least they did far more damage to the mirror.

This is exactly the opposite of how I read that description.  This makes more sense.

[Bognor]

Keith posted a table here showing cap DPS, cap total hitpoints, and more for all mark I fleet ships, starships, and turrets.  Jan 28, so presumably version 5.022.

[Martyn van Buren]

It would be seriously awesome if someone were willing to write up a list with two or three sentences of strategic advice about each ship type and add it to the Wiki. Something like: this is how you use them in a generic situation, and this is the kind of place where they're the best thing since sliced bread. It does seem like a good half the posts on this forum are 'I do not get ships type X, is it useless?', where x is usually nanobots but not always. I'm still confused by a good half the ship types --- all the different varients on fighters, especially --- and it seems like I'm not alone. I feel like it would take a really experienced player under an hour to write up, if anyone's willing. I would be but as I say I do not understand most of the ship types myself.

[Wanderer]

It would be seriously awesome if someone were willing to write up a list with two or three sentences of strategic advice about each ship type and add it to the Wiki. Something like: this is how you use them in a generic situation, and this is the kind of place where they're the best thing since sliced bread. It does seem like a good half the posts on this forum are 'I do not get ships type X, is it useless?', where x is usually nanobots but not always. I'm still confused by a good half the ship types --- all the different varients on fighters, especially --- and it seems like I'm not alone. I feel like it would take a really experienced player under an hour to write up, if anyone's willing. I would be but as I say I do not understand most of the ship types myself.

Probably around 4-6 since you'll have to go through the list and evaluate, etc etc, but yeah, could be done.

[Martyn van Buren]

I dunno, maybe we could set up a Wiki page for it?  I mean, I feel sure that for each ship type there must be someone who's already thought it through and knows how to use it well without having to crunch any numbers.  Or if not it might be a good way to see what needs a buff.  Anyway, this is asking a favor; it would be a huge help to me and I think a lot of newer players, but it is kind of a big demand on somebody nice.

I've just started looking through Orelius' epic "Guide to Golems" thread --- that is fantastically helpful to me, having just started playing expansion games.  I don't imagine anyone will feel like doing something at that length for spire and fleet ships, but a brief version would be amazing.

[Nic]

Some ships might need extra notes for when they're under AI control -- some like Eyebots and Tractor Platforms in particular can be extra-nasty under AI control.

[Bognor]

It would be seriously awesome if someone were willing to write up a list with two or three sentences of strategic advice about each ship type and add it to the Wiki.

Advance thanks and kudos to anyone who does this!  I find all the different fleet ships and their quirks one of the most fascinating aspects to this game.

[Kraiz]

It's really not a one-man job.  There's 49 different player-usable fleet ships.  It may be reasonable for some to take the Spire ships, another person the Zenith, Nenzui, Base-game, turrets, starships, ...

[PokerChen]

I dunno, maybe we could set up a Wiki page for it?

Why don't we then? Let's start making a list of who's doing what, and possibly a wiki-person to oversee the changes on Arcenwiki.

Note: the stats of some of these ships are in-flux, so we may not want to post the specific stats on the wiki but tell everyone to export it from in-game.

[BobTheJanitor]

Note: the stats of some of these ships are in-flux, so we may not want to post the specific stats on the wiki but tell everyone to export it from in-game.

That's the main reason they're not up there already. I went on a wiki kick a while back and added the base fleet ship descriptions from the in-game descriptions, so that they weren't just lists of names and nothing else. But there's not much point in adding stats and costs, because those will quickly become incorrect. There's probably a way to take an exported list of ship stats and automatically transfer it into wiki format, and if anyone is enough of an excel/wiki wizard that they want to undertake such a task I will sit here and clap for you. I've always wished there was a way to set up a fancy wiki page with ship stats and graphics for each ship's icon and a general description of what it's good for/how to kill it. But that's a lot more work than I could ever hope to complete, and I'd probably end up doing 10 ships and getting distracted.

I assume it's still possible to get wiki editing access by asking Chris about it, at least that's how I got it originally. I expect as long as you've been a regular here for more than 5 minutes and promise not to replace every page with DONGS DONGS DONGS then he would probably set anyone up a login.

[Wanderer]

I assume it's still possible to get wiki editing access by asking Chris about it, at least that's how I got it originally. I expect as long as you've been a regular here for more than 5 minutes and promise not to replace every page with DONGS DONGS DONGS then he would probably set anyone up a login.

What about if I put a quote on the header of every page "If you're not playing 10/10 you're doing it DONGS DONGS DONGS?"   

It's an interesting idea but I think I'd rather fire up a discussion page here first, get a number of different players inputs on each ship, then transfer that in.  I know I certainly haven't played with every ship, some just look boring, others require too much micro, etc.  Maybe someone with more attention span then I have could start up a forum post and keep the leading post updated with the edits until we come up with something cohesive?