Laser Gatling - Glass cannon with no cannon?

[GeistenHaus]

I'll admit, I'm relatively new to the game and I've come here to complain. I am hoping that this will draw attention to what I feel is an issue.
Most of my time playing has been experimenting with different ships. Most of them I find seem to have their niche and you can determine a strategy based on the bonus ship you picked to start with. There is nothing that seems to work with Laser Gatling. Why would I want to start with them? I hear they used to be quite overpowered to the point of being able to fight off missile frigates which are supposed to dominate them and were nerfed, but does anyone feel that it was a bit heavy handed?

Their damage looks respectable until their nearly non existent damage bonuses are compared to similar ships with bonuses of 5 or 6 against far more types. Why is it at a paltry 1.8? Their range is decent, I'd figure I could use them to kite but no, their speed is also on the low side so even things they should wear down are picking them off which isn't difficult when you put extremely low hp on top of these figures. So very high losses are inevitable, which is even worse when you realize their ship cap is also comparatively costly.
Their few advantages definitely do not seem to make up for their shortcomings in any scenario I've encountered or can think of.
I want to like them, I really do but it feels like I'm handicapping myself when I use them. If I wanted to do that I'd use one of the plethora of options meant to do that.

[Shrugging Khan]

You do know that their cap is proportional to AIP?

[Aklyon]

The Laser Gatling cap works like that? I thought that was only for Dyson Gatlings.

[Shrugging Khan]

Oh. Eh. Crap.

I thought we were talking DGs here.

Disregard my previous post, then.

[Toranth]

You do know that their cap is proportional to AIP?

Are you thinking of the Dyson Gatlings?  You are correct about those, but GeistenHaus is asking about the Laser Gatlings - a bonus fleetship.


As for the original question, Laser Gatlings have a base cap-DPS of 160,000.  This is a major increase over the Fighter's base cap-DPS of 98,000.  So, in the general case, Gatlings don't look too bad.
You are right, however, that when you compare bonus-DPS, the gatlings lose out.  There are also a lot of problems with the high-cap, low-hp ships in general, and there has been a lot of debate on how to solve these issues.  No one has yet managed to come up with a solution.

So yes, starting with Laser Gatlings is not as advantageous as starting with, say, Spire Blade Spawners or Zenith Bombards.

[TechSY730]

While the laser gatling's bonus DPS is a bit lackluster by bonus ship standards (something I hope can be buffed at some point), it does have a pretty nifty (but not wonderful) cap base DPS. (EDIT: nice point about the low speed; never noticed that. That would be a nice thing to look at buffing too)

However, in my mind, it they aren't used primarily for damage, but for cannon fodder. A way to soak up a good chunk of the alpha damage and generally "distract" the targeting algorithms so the rest of your fleet can get extra time to do its stuff. While this impact is harder to observe and measure than just straight up damage, it is no less useful to how the battle will turn out.

Plus, they are cheap.

[GeistenHaus]

One thing I hadn't considered to whine about until after I posted is their low damage per shot leaves them especially influenced by enemy armor. I've thought of just using them as cannon fodder Imperial Guard style, but as I mentioned they are pretty fragile for their cost, even the standard fighter is several times more cost effective in this regard. Not to mention more specialized ships such as younglings or the Neinzul Enclave.

Speaking of the Enclave, what's it's deal? Why is it so inexpensive? Do you pay for the drone spam or is this a relic of the mobile space dock taking on their role?

[TechSY730]

Laser gatling could use a boost to armor piercing, and the armor system itself is under discussion.

Yes, the laser gatling could use some love, but I do like it as it is cheap (per unit, though admittedly not per cap), and makes good cannon fodder. Certainly less useful than many other bonus types, but I don't think they are useless.

[Toranth]

Yes, the laser gatling could use some love, but I do like it as it is cheap (per unit, though admittedly not per cap), and makes good cannon fodder. Certainly less useful than many other bonus types, but I don't think they are useless.

Yeah, they're good cannon fodder and distraction units.  The base DPS isn't bad, and they're cheaper per-unit than Fighters.  Not useless, I agree.  Nothing in the game is useless - except the Armor Booster.

[TechSY730]

Even the armor booster can be useful in the case of having ships with high armor for their type (like armored bonus ship type), when AI has chosen to use a lot of high cap and/or weak DPS per unit ships, or when combined with the planetary armor booster.

Granted, even in these cases the difference won't be dramatic, but it would have a notable impact.

Remember, the whole armor system is probably due for a rebalance and/or retooling soon-ish.

[Toranth]

Even the armor booster can be useful in the case of having ships with high armor for their type (like armored bonus ship type), when AI has chosen to use a lot of high cap and/or weak DPS per unit ships, or when combined with the planetary armor booster.

Granted, even in these cases the difference won't be dramatic, but it would have a notable impact.

Right now, the Armor Booster is slow, short effect range, has no effect on 1/3 of fleetships, and little effect on another 1/3.  Also, higher marks don't seem to increase the armor boost.  I don't think it stacks with the Planetary Armor Booster, either.

Remember, the whole armor system is probably due for a rebalance and/or retooling soon-ish.

There was talk of making it give a +X armor * Mk to nearby ships, which could be neat.  At, say, 500 * Mk, a Mk V booster would give +2500 armor to nearby ships.  That's a LOT more than 2x for most ships.
And, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done to make Armor matter more.  It'd be neat to unlock this ship, and go "Hmm" rather than "aww".

[Histidine]

Fleetship damage multipliers could use some normalization, at any rate; currently, while many (most?) of them are in the 4-6 range, they can vary as much as 1.8x for Laser Gatlings to 30x for Preservation Warden Bombers.

[chemical_art]

I think cap wise the unit should be cheaper then even the fighter.

Then it truly acts as the role of Imperial Guard style.

[Bognor]

Even the armor booster can be useful in the case of having ships with high armor for their type (like armored bonus ship type), when AI has chosen to use a lot of high cap and/or weak DPS per unit ships, or when combined with the planetary armor booster.

Granted, even in these cases the difference won't be dramatic, but it would have a notable impact.

Right now, the Armor Booster is slow, short effect range, has no effect on 1/3 of fleetships, and little effect on another 1/3.  Also, higher marks don't seem to increase the armor boost.  I don't think it stacks with the Planetary Armor Booster, either.

Remember, the whole armor system is probably due for a rebalance and/or retooling soon-ish.

There was talk of making it give a +X armor * Mk to nearby ships, which could be neat.  At, say, 500 * Mk, a Mk V booster would give +2500 armor to nearby ships.  That's a LOT more than 2x for most ships.
And, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done to make Armor matter more.  It'd be neat to unlock this ship, and go "Hmm" rather than "aww".

This already happened as a result of the latest buff polls.  See the 6.047 patch notes.

Speaking of which, just in case you weren't aware, GeistenHaus, Keith runs polls like this one to solicit player feedback on which ships are underpowered.  You could nominate Laser Gatlings next poll, and if enough players agree, Keith will buff them.

[TechSY730]

Yea, but there is a, I think, still outstanding, but where this "min to boost to" doesn't work on ships that have 0 armor, pretty much ruining half of the point of the buff.