Author Topic: Josh's General Tips (ZG)  (Read 2934 times)

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« on: December 30, 2009, 09:37:03 pm »
Josh's General Tips
Another unwanted tip topic that is disorderly and informative; a very formal tone is established here.  Aimed for mostly all players, mostly to those who are willing to macro.  This is a very generalized guide, and won't help you unless you understand what I speaketh upon.  Adapt to your style of gameplay.  I need to stop capitalizing unit names/etc..

Ships
Anything that can be massed is exceptional--Infiltrators, Laser Gatling, Spy Planes, Autocannons, you name it.  Generally, once you reach a certain critical mass, you will have greater firepower and decrease casualties.  Infiltrators I have found are great, and are very light on the economy so you can obtain their ~1K ship cap at the start of the game fairly easily.

Ammunition Boosters are a great match for anything that moves at its speed--which is 12.  Missile Frigates, therefore, are great paired with it.  The maximum multiplier for attack is 5X; with T3 Frigates that means base 3K becomes 15K per shot, mixed with that great range.  Frigates generally are the best base ship; they seem to survive anything and again, have a long range.  Keep enemy ships out of range, and kite the enemy by keeping your Frigates in range.

Efficiency reduces if you group-move units that move faster than the rest, and especially to ships that have a limited range, eg. Cruisers + Fighters, fighters will have to get in range and that will require more micro unless you are lazy as to move the whole group towards your target, negating your shield protection.

My list of ships not to choose include anything that is fragile, too specialized and not combat-worthy, excessive resource cost (unless mid-late game), low ship cap, and generally anything else useless.

Queue
My strategy for queuing ships is for always putting the factories on loop, then queue up higher tiers in greater numbers--holding shift and clicking three times will produce 15 of that ship.

15 for T3 ship category, 5 for T2 ship category, 1 for T1 ship category, + scout.

This equates to having minimal macro, but allows your factories to create more T3 ships than the lesser, first; when the queue is finished, it loops/etc. and when your ship cap reaches max for a tier, it will stop producing that tier temporarily and covers the next tier.  I generally do this for every ship I unlock (excluding the base, and when economy is strained).  You should always have scouts on free hand, since they cost nearly nothing and take 3s to construct.

I usually don't stop this queue unless I have to--this includes sudden economy downturns, ala 2009, or long-term power outages.

Defense
Always build defenses accordingly.  If you're slightly hardcore when it comes to AI War, you would always <DELETE> unneeded defenses that both drain power and take up its respective ship cap; if you clear them up, you can field more of them elsewhere.  Always place main defenses in range of enemy wormholes, biased towards the nearest cluster of harvesters (AI always heads towards those).  Tractors, basic turrets, etc. and if you notice cloaked ships, place tachyons.  I usually build initially 5 basic turrets, and 5 tractors, and adjust accordingly.  Laser turrets are low in knowledge cost, and have long range.  Common for me to either use basic or laser turrets sparingly (1 per cluster) to defend harvesters if cloaked ships still get past--these must be in range of the harvesters, not around them.

Macro
When I'm not observing FRD fail win on offense (as intended), my general strategy on macro would be to always watch all ships.  Avoid over-extension, keep Starships near the main center mass of units to boost their attack to 5X, etc.. 

When necessary, put ships into group-attack mode, especially slow-moving ships like Missile Frigates--waypoint these to destroy the hardpoints by SHIFT+ALT left-click.  Having a fast sweeper unit to pick off enemy units is a win--but you will have to macro these yourself.  Teleporting units are proficient in this task, as long as you macro them to avoid projectiles.  Avoid at all costs in using FRD unless you want to wreck your economy recovering the ships you will soon lose; I generally won't early game, but later, if I have enough resources, I will suffice with laziness. 

Since the AI is very unpredictable, you can employ a strategy that I am rather fond of.  The AI usually attacks your planet you are from; therefore, destroy the Command Station and Warp Gate, then retreat your units to the wormhole facing your planet.  You have to decide ahead of time if you can make it or not--if you can't, try to sacrifice some units in attacking the Command while you keep your units at the wormhole.  Parasitic units (esp. Leech Starships) are excellent for this role because since ZG they can't capture defenses anymore--and since all the enemy ships come flying at you, it is a great opportunity to capitalize on this, literally.  Afterward, feel free to FRD.

Bottom-line:  Don't FRD.  If you need to, FRD after you have baited all the AI ships, leaving the defenses remaining.  Watch out for Special Guard Posts (chunky asteroid things), as they have a nice fondling attack to whichever ships get in range, and reload in 1s.  It has a minimal range, so ships such as Frigates can outrange it.

Research
Don't research too early, don't research too late.  If you have a spam-able ship type, research to T3 immediately, queue using my technique.  Don't waste research.  Avoid defense research, avoid anything you don't really need.  Only defense worthy of being researched anywhere near early game are Laser turrets, as they have a long range.  Missile, Lightning, higher tier turrets are a waste of knowledge.  Lightning especially, as it AOEs but costs considerable resources, and power, and generally does little to no damage at all.  Useless.  Always max out your turret cap (and scuttle free turrets before doing this) before you research the second tier of defenses, always--usually this means you absolutely need to have that many turrets.

Avoid Starships unless you can rush to take nearby planets ASAP.  You want to maximize your economy rapidly, not stall it early game.  I still recommend Raid Starships, more so early game because T1 ships are useless to leech via Leech Starships.

Avoid scouts, because 10 T1 scouts can easily make it through your nearby planets, including IV.  If they are destroyed, try again.  Scouting is far more easier to do now because they automatically head to safe land.  A spare hint on scouting is that they are not necessarily overcome by the idle garrisons on AI planets--the destruction of scouts could be the result of trains that happen to decloak your scouts.  Perhaps research scouts later in the game to locate core planets.

Don't waste any research you don't need to.  Save all knowledge that you don't need for the moment, and try avoiding the "unlock everything at start" because things will appear later game that suggests otherwise.  I find it useless if you unlock too much at one time if your economy can't support it, and if you're not actually constructing your researched topics.

Engineers
T2 Engineers late game.  Research, get it done.  Have enough power for them.  Control-group them.  Move around where needed.  Repair, assist, support.  Very helpful to have a few assisting a new colonization attempt, as they will speed up both Colony Ship construction (ZG is 10 seconds, last pre-release was 10 min construction time), and your Command Station (this is for free).  A side tip on that note, don't worry if minor forces (ie. Sniper) are attacking a constructing Command Station--it always regens HP until its constructed; of course, it would not be a good idea to do this when there are a lot of forces lingering/cloaked.

T2 Engineers to me are more helpful than Mobile Repairs, simply because they can be used for more than repairing fleets, can travel anywhere in an instant, can repair quickly due to teleport, etc..  Both cost knowledge, but with Engineers you get a far more multi-functioned support unit.  T2 Engineers can be set in FRD, just keep an eye on them on enemy planets.  If damaged, select the control-group and teleport them far and they will repair each other, then FRD again.  AI usually doesn't prioritize Engineers over combat vessels.

Economy
Very simple:  never allow your resource harvesters to be destroyed, always protect your CMD.  Cloaked ships?  Tachyon or decloaker.  Wandering ships?  Make sure you have tractored the wormhole with sufficient defenses.  If necessary, put a few defenses in range of harvesters (seldom 1-2) but facing towards wormholes to maximize hit.  Avoid Exo-Harvester Force Fields, since they -2 resource per structure, along with requiring power.  Only if necessary, construct on endangered planets, scuttle unneeded because they can't be toggled.

Never construct T3 power generators unless necessary.  Never idle power, eg. 100K.  Toggle these off to save resources.  Always construct T2 pgens, avoid T1.  Toggle outermost pgens if possible (they won't affect your current power if destroyed, else you need to spend macro to toggle one back on).  Remember it's your resources, and maximizing your efficiency is the best way to power your economy, literally again.

Side tip is to be alert at the bottom toolbar--I use this to toggle pgens because it reveals which are currently toggled, and clicking on them will insta-zoom onto the planet with the pgen.  Caution of having multiple tiers of pgens is that they will become cluttered on that sidebar, so you will have to guess/etc. which ones are T2/etc..

Sidebar of Units
Helpful.  Click on one of the categories of your ships, you select all them.  Good for quick macro, but ruins grouping.  Right-clicking on enemy icon will zoom in on it.  Generally sidebar offers you intel on ships in planet, eg. where is my mobile builder, can't find that ball shape.  Only shows if you have intel (scouts) on planet.

Galaxy View
Not very helpful except for changing planet views quickly.  Remember to use the filters, eg. find on the sidebar, you can select "show knowledge, show fleets, show unused resource, etc.".  Somewhat helpful to label planets with the P#, but make sure others understand.  eg. label permamines via P0, label the connecting planet P0 so you don't forget and have the permamines fondle your ships.

Teamwork
Important.  Build/gift your allies T2 pgens on planets you capture.  Exchange metal/crystal instead of utilizing inefficient manufactories to exchange resource currency.  If your allies don't mind, and you have good macro and attention/care, have them construct Control Nodes which allows everyone else to control their units/etc. so you can reconstruct harvesters, reposition fleets/etc. for them, in a subjugating courteous manner.  Try to keep to yourself; eg. don't mix planet owners, have one general cluster area so you don't have planets in all places.  Some players don't want this to happen anyways--they want to have sovereign reign.

Planets to Take
Always take planets that have the most resources first, while considering the amount of ships and tier level.  Keep in mind you have a delicate balance of reinforcement time, ie. you wait too long, AI sends in reinforcements to bolster "Alerted to Presence" planets with psychic powers, or you go too early, ie. you get cuddly hugged .  Please prepare your defenses on the other end for when you enrage send flowers to the AI, because they will go through and attack your connecting planet, so if you have no defenses whatsoever, they will be able to wander in and destroy your harvesters/CMD/your macro and sanity because you're waging a guerrilla and full-on war.

When you're nearly done taking over the planet (ie. prepare ships to defend CMD, or only defenses remain) then feel free to plop your Colony Ship of destruction.  The AI will be so fearful of the brilliance that it will never attack your planet ever until it is done constructing.  Therefore it's helpful if you begin attacking the AI planet, and make a Colony Ship ahead of time, but be sure to keep it somewhat away and close to the wormhole leading to that planet, or the Colony Ship will release party baloons and streamers when it is destroyed.

// Finishing on time... feel free to comment.
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group

Offline raptor331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 06:58:58 pm »
I'm not as new to the game as I am to the forums, so I have never heard of the term "kiting" what is it?

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 07:47:58 pm »
Kiting, is where (non-specific to AI War) you use long ranged units to maximize their damage potential against units that need to get in range before attacking.

eg.  Cruisers can out-range most units, therefore you want them to get in range, move them back when enemy units come towards you while staying in range, ????, = profit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 08:03:47 pm by Spikey00 »
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group

Offline raptor331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 07:51:23 pm »
I see thank you, and I have to disagree with your comment about defensive reshearch, I think the missile turret and the fortress are both worth some attention, mainly because the missile turret doenst have as many weaknesses and have a large range, the fortress for its incredible range and power for taking out ships that broke through your wormhole defence.

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 08:18:14 pm »
Laser turrets fire more rapidly (and therefore don't overkill as much) with 4.0s reload, and they have actually have a longer range than missile turrets.

Fortresses take far too long to construct, and, based on very raw comparison,

94 000 combined resources for one Fortress.
34 000 combined resources for 170 Basic Turrets.

Fortress Volley: 189 000
Basic Turrets Volley:  306 000

Fortress HP:  4 800 000
Basic Turrets HP:  7 820 000

Disregarding range and movement advantage because on defense you will always want to prevent enemy movement away from wormholes and ruin your economy.  Massing 170 Basic Turrets (T1) is unrealistic, but is an example on how a single fortress is less-cost effective than 170 turrets (and turrets take a minute to construct, compared to four).  This does not take into account unit shielding, as Fortress fire evades shields; again, a very raw comparison but the resources is all my motivation to avoid using Fortresses.

Also not considering deployment vulnerability.
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group

Offline raptor331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2009, 08:32:27 pm »
you seem to forget that the fortress has a large bonus against alot of ships that can pass through your wormhole defences, such as cloaked ships that are imune to tractor beams and starships. It is easier to decide where to put one to four fortresses than to decide where to place 170 turrets, and it is a bad idea to focus 170 turrets on a single planet when you can use them for other planets as well, and remember that all the turrets arent focused like a fortresses, and they all wont be able to attack a single shiip because they are out of range that and fortresses can protect units from large attacks like advanced labs and ships that you have earned through leeching and bombers that you dont want to be destroyed. Plus it is easier than you would think to builld a fortress early on in the game. I've done it countless of times.

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2009, 08:43:40 pm »
(Other turrets, eg. MRLS, or better use mobile military, works too.)

I still never construct Fortresses--disregarding their bonus against various ship types.  They simply cost too much and cannot be easily re-positioned across planets, which apparently is their huge drawback. 

...and disregarding their steep 4K knowledge cost.
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group

Offline raptor331

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2009, 09:00:18 pm »
I guess it really depends on the player, but i didn't mean for you to use the fortress alone, you can use the missile turrets for the key points that the fortress doesnt reach.

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2009, 09:32:47 pm »
Either way, I still am profoundly against research of defenses of any type because basic + MRLS should take care of any defense query until late game, and that's 170+170 cap without any research at all.

Lasers have somewhat lesser damage potential than missile turrets, but again they have a larger radius, reload quicker, and only cost 500 knowledge in comparison to the missile turret.  The drawback is that they cost more than missiles; but again, I refrain from researching lasers unless I have a reason to use for their range to cover resource/utilize range to .
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group

Offline I-KP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
  • Caveat Pactor
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 08:38:22 am »
Fortresses are (now) better than you make out -- a classic example of stats being massaged to support an argument -- for many of the reasons already mentioned here and elsewhere.  Their range (and attack bonus) is so large now that a central position is effective in 80% of cases.  Quite often you don't even need defense turrets (aside from the obligatory T-Beamers) to repel a Wave when supported by a small Fleet/Starship contingent.  I usually don't build them as standard but there are occasionally multi-wormhole worlds that benefit hugely from having a Fortress plonked there and if you've managed to engineer it that only one of your worlds is ever attacked by Waves then a Fortress effectively doubles your maxed out turret defense for less than the cost in Knowledge it took you to obtain side maxed out turret Marks in the first place.
Atmospheric & Lithospheric Reticulator,
Post-accretion Protoplanet Aesthetic Seeding Team,
Celestial Body Design & Procurement Division,
Magrathea Pan-Galactic Planets Corp.,
Magrathea.

Offline Spikey00

  • Lord of just 5 Colony Ships
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,704
  • And he sayeth to sea worm, thou shalt wriggle
Re: Josh's General Tips (ZG)
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2010, 01:57:00 pm »
What I can make out:  missile turrets are good against bombers, frigates, and I assume starships and structures.  Laser turrets are more towards the misc. ships such as fighters, tanks, and spy planes (and therefore assume most "fast" ships) in due to their long-ranged and quick reload persona.  While, if you are oddly doing defense wars, missile turrets destroy lasers, but lasers will always out-range missiles, even T1 to T3.

The difference in 1 500 knowledge is a discouragement in investing for the missile turrets.

--

Fortresses nor T3 defenses are worth the knowledge IMO.  =\

--

Interesting.  Below are done on a clean battleground.

15 basic turrets vs MRLS vs T3s:  15 fighters, 5 bombers, 5 cruisers.
Basic turrets were utterly destroyed.  12 fighters, 5 bombers, 5 cruisers.
MRLS were destroyed.  5 bombers.

--

Fortress, given some realistic conditions, 3 wormholes, ships spawned equally amongst.  Range is not completely maxed, to increase realism (somewhat).  AI controls fortress (frd), I immediately attack.

Fortress vs 45 of each T3 three base ships, 3 dread (T1), 3 star (T1).  Err-wait, try that again since it was destroyed with 123 ships remaining (mainly targeted frigates).

Fortress vs without dread., still was destroyed.  Oddly switched targets, 15 fighters remaining and no starships.  All bombers and frigates were untouched.

Trying T1 with dread.  Fortress still destroyed, with only 45 bombers, 29 fighters, and 3 dreads remaining.

Trying T1 again with 15 tractors (all non-capital is tractored) each on wormhole.  sigh, the dreads again that destroyed the fortress in no time at all...  44 bombers, 30 fighters, all frigates destroyed, no starships.

Again, without dreads.  Everything besides bombers were destroyed, and they eventually broke through the tractor beams after a very long time and tons of volleys.  Not very funny, but the turtle 1 AI decided to send in forces that ruined the statistics--otherwise the fortress would have never destroyed the bombers even after a large amount of volleys...

But I do see the point that it is valuable to have in some scenarios, but you still need anti-bomber forces because the fortress has such a huge penalty to them, and dreadnaughts, apparently.  Actually, never mind--but you will have to macro the fortress to attack the dreadnaughts:  they one shot them...?  However, a dreadnaught can easily do 10% damage to a fortress.

EDIT:  Forgot to test T1 170 turrets.  Not including dreadnaughts since they outrange.  Very raw based performance, and range is accounted for.

150 basic turrets remain.
170 MRLS turrets remain.
170 missile turrets remain.
168 laser turrets remain.

T3 equivalence (three z starships):

0 laser turrets, all bombers, 25 frigates, no fighters, two z starships lost + one 25% hp,
152 missile turrets, everything destroyed.

Interesting stats for T3, but still I will never find myself upgrading to T3 defenses unless late game.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 02:27:00 pm by Spikey00 »
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
irc.appliedirc.com / #aiwar
AI War Facebook
AI War Steam Group