Author Topic: Impossible situation?  (Read 1932 times)

Offline mindloss

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Impossible situation?
« on: September 06, 2011, 01:57:56 am »
Being the clever person I am, I started a 7/7 on 10-planet snake with myself at one end... figured I'd slowly bulldoze my way through. Get up to the first homeworld, and after a couple of hours of back-and-forth I'm ready to make my decisive strike... go in, and everything is invincible. It takes me a minute to realize that A- and B-shields are still active, up past that homeworld on other core worlds.

Do I just give up? Without being able to touch guardposts on the homeworld chokepoint, there's no way I can get sufficient forces through that mess to take a core world... and they've got invincible warhead interceptors on the homeworld and next core world, so I can't cheat my way through. I'm stuck.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 02:00:13 am »
Yea, 10-planet snake maps with core shield generators are good for getting stuck :)  I suggest removing the "snake maps" or "core shield generators" condition, and it probably won't tie into nearly so much of a knot.
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Offline mindloss

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 04:17:52 am »
As it turned out, I was able to load up five transports with a strike team, send in some viral slicers as cover, and get the transports three jumps down where there was a nice cozy non-core world in the middle of all the madness. Set up a beachhead, and from there it's just been a nice sloggy grind. :P

BTW, I'd be long since dead in this game if it weren't for that new stuck-shield exploit...

Edit: Wait, you can turn off the core shields? I don't remember seeing that option...

Offline x4000

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 08:53:57 am »
It's under ship types inthe lobby
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 03:18:21 pm »
hahaha I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to ever make that mistake :D
only I played on a 120 planet map, dif 5/5, also bulldozing my way through. Only to find out halfway that the first homeworld is invulnerable. AIP had risen to much already and there was no way past it lol. Had to give up on that game, though I suspected as much from the start.

Offline mindloss

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 11:41:25 am »
I'd just like to add that I ended up beating this one. My first 7/7 win! Weird as hell (this was also the game with all the bugs mentioned in other posts), and cage-match-y indeed, but fun.

Also, it seems like if you're patient/lame enough, you can take out homeworlds pretty effectively through repeated applications of warheads, preferably with cloakers unless you're rich enough to buy armored. That's what I did on this one, cloakers and lit missiles, and my AIP shot up to 680 or so by the end (on a 10-planet map!), but it didn't matter. Does this always work, or was this unusual for some reason?

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 06:27:20 pm »
Oh, I use warheads probably a lot more than I should-From what I hear about martyrs, I pretty much use them like that. LArge wave incoming, position Mk. III Lightning next to the wormhole, detonate, wave done. I get a lot of AIP but I'm working on creating a non-warhead based defense.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline mindloss

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 09:16:00 pm »
I was thinking the same thing, they're basically martyrs that primarily cost AIP. But so long as you don't go crazy with 'em (or if you do go crazy, but it's part of your killing strike), seems toootally worth it.

Oh, and warheads exploded under shields take the 75% damage redux? I guess that's to be expected, but that's one more new-shield-change problem with allowing enemies inside shields.  :-\  I ran into that quite accidentally a couple of times today.

(I think they take the reduction. I'm not sure, because I also remember being confused that a bunch of ships survived and the reason turned out to be frigs are immune to AoE. I might be conflating things in my head.)

Offline Nalgas

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 06:49:17 am »
Being the clever person I am, I started a 7/7 on 10-planet snake with myself at one end... figured I'd slowly bulldoze my way through. Get up to the first homeworld, and after a couple of hours of back-and-forth I'm ready to make my decisive strike... go in, and everything is invincible. It takes me a minute to realize that A- and B-shields are still active, up past that homeworld on other core worlds.

Do I just give up? Without being able to touch guardposts on the homeworld chokepoint, there's no way I can get sufficient forces through that mess to take a core world... and they've got invincible warhead interceptors on the homeworld and next core world, so I can't cheat my way through. I'm stuck.

Heh.  I just saw this and was going to say that it's not actually impossible, just a pain in the ass, but then I read down further through the thread and discovered that you already figured it out yourself.  My "thing" last month was playing 10-planet maps and deliberately leaving Core Shield Generators on, while also deliberately gimping myself by doing stuff like leaving stuff like Spirecraft off, because I'd been relying so heavily on Martyrs (and bringing it up again because of that helped lead to them finally getting nerfed; you're all welcome).

Depending on the map and how cranky the RNG is feeling that day, it can be kind of painful but doable, or it can be absolutely brutal and borderline impossible.  I'm going to guess that you didn't run into the situation in that game that I kept repeatedly getting seeded on my maps that resulted in my inevitable doom most of the time.  While any of the CSGs are still intact, you can't damage/destroy any of the structures on the homeworlds, because they provide complete invincibility to them.  One of the possible structures that can be seeded on a homeword is a Core Raid Engine, which launches a wave of mk5 ships every four minutes if you have any of your own ships at the homeworld or any of the neighboring worlds.  On a 10-planet map, at least one of the CSGs, if not more, will be seeded on one of the core worlds next door.  You cannot damage the CSGs until you control the planet, because they're invincible until then.  Going anywhere near the planet with the CSG triggers an endless stream of mk5 ships.  You cannot stop the source of the ships until you destroy the CSG.  I think one time I went in with as much as three golems and a nuke on my side and still eventually lost.  FML.

I've seen some particularly evil variations on that, like in one game the planet with the CSG had more than one Warp Counterattack Guardpost on it (under shields, of course) just for fun, along with warhead interceptors and ion cannons and orbital mass drivers and radar jammers, and between the two AIs they just happened to have a fleet ship that could decloak stuff along with having most of the Spire fleet ships, just to be extra dickish.  It's like every time you think you might have some suicidal way of dealing with it that has a 1% chance of success, they already have something in place to preemptively stop it.  Less evil but still entertaining is when you send a scout through and discover one of those Neinzul guardposts on one of the homeworlds parked right on top of the wormhole, which gets triggered by the dying scout somehow, and 1500 cockroaches come pouring through into your own system a minute later.  Hilarity ensues.

And then a few tries later on a new map, it stops being a complete bastard and gives you one that's actually playable, like yours.  Heh.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 09:20:26 am »
While any of the CSGs are still intact, you can't damage/destroy any of the structures on the homeworlds, because they provide complete invincibility to them.  One of the possible structures that can be seeded on a homeword is a Core Raid Engine, which launches a wave of mk5 ships every four minutes if you have any of your own ships at the homeworld or any of the neighboring worlds.  On a 10-planet map, at least one of the CSGs, if not more, will be seeded on one of the core worlds next door.  You cannot damage the CSGs until you control the planet, because they're invincible until then.  Going anywhere near the planet with the CSG triggers an endless stream of mk5 ships.  You cannot stop the source of the ships until you destroy the CSG.  I think one time I went in with as much as three golems and a nuke on my side and still eventually lost.
The AI did seem insufferably pleased with itself a while ago, must've been about that time...

If I ever get something working for the overall-difficulty thing one of the rules will need to be "You've selected a 10-planet galaxy with Core Shield Generators enabled; by geolocating your IP address we have determined that this is not legal in your country.  Please pick a different scenario."  ;)
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Offline Nalgas

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Re: Impossible situation?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 09:37:23 am »
If I ever get something working for the overall-difficulty thing one of the rules will need to be "You've selected a 10-planet galaxy with Core Shield Generators enabled; by geolocating your IP address we have determined that this is not legal in your country.  Please pick a different scenario."  ;)

It's not like it's guaranteed to be so hard that it needs a warning like that.  mindloss got a map that was reasonable enough that he got his first 7/7 win with those settings, after all.  If you get one without any inconveniently placed "ship spawner" structures (raid engines are by far the worst, but things like the CPA and Neinzul posts are annoying to a lesser degree if you have to pass through the system), they're not really bad at all.  The odds do seem to be somewhat in favor of it generating maps that justify that message, though.  Heh.