Author Topic: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated  (Read 2342 times)

Offline Kahuna

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Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« on: January 13, 2012, 05:51:38 pm »
Hey guys..
So I started playing AI War a while ago (some months?) and I've been playing it a LOT (1 of the best games eva).. I've lost dozens of games but improved after every game so I was able to win 2 games in a row. The first game I won was against Special Forces Captain and Feeding Parasite both 6 Less Easy difficulty on 80 planet map. My second game was against Alarmist and Experimentalist on 7 Normal difficulty on100 planet map. Both games were not easy but not hard either.. more easy than hard. I always have all AI Plots enabled. No Marauders, Devourer or Spire Civilian Leaders. Broken Golems and Spirecraft are on Hard. From AI modifiers I've only enabled Schizophrenic. Map style is usually Simple - Hubs. I've been playing with the AI Progress disabled. Speaking of AI Progress.. what's the default/normal AI Progress/minute? 1 in 5 minutes? That's 120 in 10 hours. :o

Oh and I've been reading the Wiki a lot. I've also read "Need Strategy Advice?" http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,6.0.html

Now after the 2 wins I'm against Attrioner and Radar Jammer on 9 Very Hard difficulty on 120 planet map.. and I'm either destroyed by the first Exogalactic Strikeforce or I just lose ~2 planets and my fleet. I saved before the Exogalactic Strikeforce and tried it 3 times: the first 2 times I got destroyed by Golems (first Regen and then Widow+Armor). Then instead of golems I just got lot of ships and ~35 Hybrids with ~200 ships.. I won but lost 2 planets and my fleet. I had resources and Space Docks so I'd have been able to rebuild my stuff but meh.. I think I need to change/fix my strategy.
PS/Edit/Whatever: I just reliazed why I got destroyed by the 2 first EgSfs.. my homeworld had 1 hostile wormhole.. I'd probably have been able to stop the golems if I had taken all planets next to my homeworld.

The map is 370486973 and I started with Vampire Claws (Available Ships: Normal). First I researched MarkII and MarkIII Vampire Claws and easily captured the non IV lvl neighbour planets. After that I researched BomberII, Harvester Exo-Shield, Advanced Warp Sensor, Missile FrigateII, FighterII, Economical Command StationII, Scout DroneII, Gravitational TurretI, Force FieldII, Basic TurretII, Laser TurretII, BomberIII in that order.  I had 7 planets and had played for 2 hours 20 minutes. (This was after I won the Exogalactic Strikeforce).

So.. any pros have any ideas what went wrong?.. besides having a hostile wormhole on my homeworld. I don't usually use Starships since they're expensive and get destroyed quite easily. I had 5 Antimatter Starships to help against the hyrbids though.. since I had few hundreds of thousands of resources almost all the time. Should I have been using the resources more and be more aggressive since I would have had the resources to rebuild my stuff? Or did I just mess up my researches? Are Fortresses worth the price? I could imagine Fortress with Gravitational Turrets and Spider Turrets would work well.. yes? no?

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Technologies Which of these are good for beginners? Any other good build/research orders?

1 specific problem I have on Very Hard difficulty is the AI planets getting filled with reinforcements.. I capture planet A and then planet A's neighbour planets all get filled with reinforcements (1k++ MarkIV ships or whatever) >:(. Should I neuter the neighbour planets before capturing the planet A? Or did I just expand too fast and didn't use enough time to neither the planets?.. but if I have AI Progress enabled and I neuter 5 IV planets things are going to get really hard at end because rebuilding the fleet (or half) after every planet takes a lot of time. Should I ignore IV planets until I have MarkIII ships?

 ??? Also I find some bonus ships quite useless or not so useful: Raptor(fragile and low damage), Autocannon(not very useful attack multipliers), Nanoswarm(Wouldn't Parasite or Zenith Paralyzer be better?), Eye Bot(I love these but don't know what to do with them), MLRS(Just another Missile Frigate?), Tachyon Micro Fighter(Poor man's fighters? Yes they have tachyon beam but meh), Impulse Reaction Emitter(Not sure about these.. are they any good?). Can't I just use them or what? :-\

I think I'm going to try 8 Hard or 7.6 Moderate.. first 8 and if it's too hard then 7.6.. 2 Train Masters might be fun..

Yes this post is long and there's lot of questions.. I actually ended up writing about 7 times more than I was going to (brain started working when I started writing).. I hope the text isn't too messy/confusing. :-\ It's 00:36 while I'm writing this and I'm about to enter the zombie mode. Anyway.. any help, tips, strategies or whatever would be appreciated. If my questions are answered somewhere already just give me a link and I'll read (again/more). I'm perfectionist and don't like giving up so I'm going to grind trough the losses and practice till I poop on 10 Doom with or without help :P
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if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
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   set /A me=SadPanda
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 07:00:40 pm »
This deserves a more in-depth response than I have time to type out right now, but I will say that some of those apparently worthless ships might just need a strategy adjustment to show their value. Always be sure to notice the metal/crystal costs of the ships that seem underwhelming. You might find that the supposedly weak ships cost mere pocket change, thus allowing you to crank them out endlessly. Put a dock right next to a wormhole that you're assaulting and give it a waypoint through the wormhole and then set it to crank out something like nanoswarms on FRD. That's always a fun tactic that bolsters your regular attack fleet quite well.

Offline zoutzakje

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 10:03:47 am »
first of all, it might be a good idea to start on 8 or 7.6 difficulty indeed. The difference between 7 and 9 is huge (also, the AI types influence the difficulty more than the difficulty itself)
I believe most people set the AI progress at 1 for every 30 mins. Personally I always disable this option, I prefer being able to take as much time as I want.
Fortresses can be very useful but keep in mind that they can wreck your economy early game if you're not careful. To me they're more like a last resort kind of thing. First I build ff's and lots of turrets (mainly gravity and tractor). And If I'm still having trouble, even with the support of my fleet, then I might make fortresses.
And here's the thing with MK IV planets... unless you have absolutely no other way, don't go put them on alert. Especially not early game, they will wreck you. If you see a nice target, but it's bordering a mk IV, try to scout for another nice target that doesn't border an mk IV first.
As for the bonus ship types. They all have their uses, you just need to discover them. The Raptors for example. Fragile and low dmg? perhaps, but you're forgetting the fact that they are cloacked and have very high speed. In my current game I'm using them to assassinate guard posts, while my main fleet is distracting the enemy. they're quite good at it.
out of the few bonus ship types you named, I only really use the raptors and the Impulse Reaction Emitter (there is plenty of nasty stuff out there with high energy usage, so the IRE's can be pretty useful). But I also know people who have really found a good purpose for the others.

Hope this will at least answer a few of you questions

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 10:30:13 am »
Glad to hear you're enjoying the game :)  Always good to hear when someone else discovers it and goes "whoa" ;)

I always have all AI Plots enabled.
There's your problem ;)  More seriously, that's doable but is a way more challenging game (the hybrids and the beachheads, mainly; the trains aren't a big deal).

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Broken Golems and Spirecraft are on Hard.
That can be ouch-time, as you'll get two different sets of exos coming in (both drawing strength from AIP).  Plenty of people play with both on (and FS to boot) but it's definitely an "advanced" game.

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I'm against Attrioner and Radar Jammer on 9 Very Hard difficulty on 120 planet map
Good grief you're a glutton for punishment :)  Diff 9, among other things doubles exo size (compared to diff 7).  Also, 120 planets has somewhat more hybrid spawners than 80 planets.  And Diff 9 has fairly punishing normal waves, compared to 7.

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I think I need to change/fix my strategy.
The setup you've picked does indeed require a high level of both strategic thinking and tactical execution.  If it was courage that led you this far, I salute you ;)

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So.. any pros have any ideas what went wrong?
That's a level of difficulty where you don't have to make mistakes to lose, you can lose by just not being really good.  That said I think you're getting there.  Here's a recent example of someone playing a brutal scenario and (eventually) prevailing, you may find the techniques helpful:

http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,9635.0.html

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I don't usually use Starships since they're expensive and get destroyed quite easily.
You may want to investigate Riot Control Starships for crowd control on the little attackers.  The other starships certainly have their uses too, it depends on the situation.

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I had 5 Antimatter Starships to help against the hyrbids though
I do find them good for that.

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Should I have been using the resources more and be more aggressive since I would have had the resources to rebuild my stuff?
Unused resources is usually a sign that you could be playing better.  Not that I feel compelled to spend all mine, I just content myself with less brutal scenarios and not playing optimally :)  But if your defenses are crumbling and you've got m+c in the bank, it should have been on the field, not in the bank.

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Or did I just mess up my researches?
That can certainly happen.  More forcefields (deployed in overlapping stacks) might have helped hold enemies from entering a critical wormhole (by covering the entrance, not the exit).

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Are Fortresses worth the price?
Depends, but in heavy defensive situations yes.  I don't think I've seen anyone fighting this kind of game successfully without using fortresses.  They're pretty beastly as far as non-superweapon units go.

Speaking of superweapons: make use of your spirecraft options.  Martyrs, in particular, can do _incredible_ things on the defensive.  The asteroids are a finite resource, of course, but if it's the difference between winning and losing...

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I could imagine Fortress with Gravitational Turrets and Spider Turrets would work well.. yes? no?
It's certainly a combo that shows up in games like these :)

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Raptor(fragile and low damage)
But cloaking and fast; some serious raiding can be done with these.  But in a standup fleet fight... not their cup of tea :)  And I don't know that it's low damage; 333 dps/ship (on high caps) with 1.8 bonuses for a standard-cap-size isn't that low compared to others, iirc,

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Autocannon(not very useful attack multipliers)
Structural is one of the most important multipliers, for taking down AI forcefields.  UltraHeavy is also pretty nice on the offensive.  Also, cloaked and moves fast.  Again not a beefy blob-fighter, but even there they should contribute.

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Nanoswarm(Wouldn't Parasite or Zenith Paralyzer be better?)
Nanoswarms are a very strange unit, but one of my favorites.  My preferred usage is to set up a few space docks with assisting engineers on the other side of a wormhole that leads to the planet I want to attack, and set them to loop-build nanoswarms with an FRD waypoint sending them to the target planet.  Doomshroom cannon :)  This tends to cause a ton of confusion on the enemy planet, and I can send in my normal attack and take fewer casualties, etc.  A similar approach could help in some defensive situations.

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Eye Bot(I love these but don't know what to do with them)
Being able to shoot through forcefields is important.  That said, these are currently a bit hard to use for the human (they can be brutal in the hands of the AI), and we're looking at some ways to buff them.  The trick is not simultaneously making them too nasty in AI hands.

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MLRS(Just another Missile Frigate?)
Much more powerful than standard missile ships, in terms of dps.  There's not supposed to be anything particularly special about them, they're just a good solid ship for fleet combat.  Even if they were just missile frigates it's useful to have more cap :)

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Tachyon Micro Fighter(Poor man's fighters? Yes they have tachyon beam but meh)
The tachyon beam isn't very significant (unless you're fighting an AI with a ton of nasty cloaking units... like Eyebots).  But having more fighters is :)  And a cap of microfighters is more effective than a cap of fighters.

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Impulse Reaction Emitter(Not sure about these.. are they any good?)
They're absolutely lovely against really big stuff with high energy use.  Golems, H/Ks, etc.  Not bad in a standup fight, either.

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I think I'm going to try 8 Hard or 7.6 Moderate.. first 8 and if it's too hard then 7.6.. 2 Train Masters might be fun..
It sounds like you could probably handle 8, if you're prepared to savescum while learning.  Train masters aren't too threatening, but that many trains could prove annoying.

Good hunting :)
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 06:09:56 pm »
Awesome! Thanks for the help guys!

I always have all AI Plots enabled.
There's your problem ;)  More seriously, that's doable but is a way more challenging game (the hybrids and the beachheads--
Hm. I think I'm going to disabled Advanced Hybrids (or maybe entirely) for AI2. They can definitely be quite nasty sometimes.. but they can be dealt with pretty easily if you're prepared. On Less Easy and Normal well placed defenses were usually enough (Basic- + GravTurret + others).
Haven't had much problems with the Beachheads. Usually when there's a wave coming I put my fleet next to the wormhole (especially if the incoming wave is suspiciously small) so the Beachheads are in range of my bombers and other ultra heavy killing stuff. They usually die in about 2 seconds and then my FFs and defenses are back online and slaughter fest begins. Could try the harder difficulty levels without them first though.

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Broken Golems and Spirecraft are on Hard.
That can be ouch-time, as you'll get two different sets of exos coming in (both drawing strength from AIP).  Plenty of people play with both on (and FS to boot) but it's definitely an "advanced" game.
Good point^^ think i'mma disable Spirecraft. I could change it on medium or easy too but then I would get spirecraft without exos right? That might be too easy.. I might "have" to play against Raid Engine.  :-X

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I'm against Attrioner and Radar Jammer on 9 Very Hard difficulty on 120 planet map
Good grief you're a glutton for punishment :)  Diff 9, among other things doubles exo size (compared to diff 7).  Also, 120 planets has somewhat more hybrid spawners than 80 planets.  And Diff 9 has fairly punishing normal waves, compared to 7.
Yep. I don't like games being too easy.. if it's too easy I don't feel like I have accomplished anything. Also the difficulty makes the game more interesting since you have to focus, think and really try.
I didn't find the normal waves to be a problem. What killed me were the Hybrids,  exos with golems and being surrounded and blocked by IV planets. Maybe I should have researched more ships so I'd have been able to clear those IV planets. I just won a 4 hour 45 minute game on 10 planet map against 2 8 difficulty AIs (Attriotioner/Vanilla) and did very well (was easy) when I researched all markII ships almost right away. If playing defensively I'm not doing so well. Oh and strong economy helped a lot. Rebuilding my fleet quite fast and being able to repair the Golems really helped.. man those Regeneration Golems are expensive..

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I think I need to change/fix my strategy.
The setup you've picked does indeed require a high level of both strategic thinking and tactical execution.  If it was courage that led you this far, I salute you ;)
Courage+thirst for honor and challenge=epic things

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So.. any pros have any ideas what went wrong?
That's a level of difficulty where you don't have to make mistakes to lose, you can lose by just not being really good.  That said I think you're getting there.  Here's a recent example of someone playing a brutal scenario and (eventually) prevailing, you may find the techniques helpful: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,9635.0.html
I think I know what went wrong. Now I'm going to try 8 Hard and see how I can fix  the problems. And yes I read that thread.. epic stuff. :o

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More forcefields (deployed in overlapping stacks) might have helped hold enemies from entering a critical wormhole (by covering the entrance, not the exit).
I had like 7 FFs (markI though) but destroying the Regeneration Golem took so long the other enemies got trough the FFs.. and the next time the Armored Golem just drilled trough them like *snap*.  :'(
If I build a FF on an AI planet wouldn't the AI destroy it? The only hostile wormhole I had on my homeworld was from IV planet which I wasn't able to clear. ::)

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Speaking of superweapons: make use of your spirecraft options.  Martyrs, in particular, can do _incredible_ things on the defensive
Good point. I didn't understand the power of Tractor Beams until I tried the Spire Tractor Platforms (when I won the second time). Gonna have to try those Martyrs.

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The tachyon beam isn't very significant (unless you're fighting an AI with a ton of nasty cloaking units
Stealth and Shadow Master  :)

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Tachyon Micro Fighter(Poor man's fighters? Yes they have tachyon beam but meh)
The tachyon beam isn't very significant. But having more fighters is :)  And a cap of microfighters is more effective than a cap of fighters.
Any reason to pick MicroFighters over Bulletproof Fighters?  ???

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Good hunting :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions.  ;D
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 06:13:08 pm by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 02:22:27 pm »
I just wanted to chime in to encourage you to be a bit cautious about upping the difficulty and turning on too many AI plots and factions --- it's easy to miss how enormously variable AI War difficulty can be, and some plots (for me, hybrids especially), can add to difficulty almost as much as a tier of difficulty setting. Which is a lot --- hence all the decimals between 7 and 8.  You sound like you're a lot more experienced with RTS strategy than me, but personally I haven't been able to make the jump from 7.6 with fairly easy settings to 8 with hard ones after about three months of regular play; I can take 7.6 pretty handily most of the time, but at 8 I get wiped out pretty early in the game. If you feel like you're still learning the game I'd suggest playing through once or twice without the expansions too. Even the base game has an enormous amount going on and it's easier to get the feel for how the different units work with less crazy things going on on the side like exo-waves and hybrids.

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Hi! and Help! Help, tips & strategies are appreciated
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 02:27:54 pm »
Also, try using starships! The light starship-flagships lines gives good boosts and the higher tiers add serious amounts of firepower. Bombers and whatever siege/antimatter ships are called now can take down big structures really fast. Riot control's tractor beams and engine damage are great for, well, riot control. And raiders are some of the most overpowered units in the game; they're enormously fast and shoot through forcefields. You can often get away with sending a cap or two two/three planets deep to take out a few nasty guard posts or warp gates and come back with all your ships intact. I haven't tried cloakers yet but people seem to use them to great effect also.