Heavily fortified neighbor planet, should I care?

[BobTheJanitor]

In the game I've been playing through (my first) I am just about ready to try and take one of the two AI homeworlds. It's situated on a loop of wormholes, so that there are two directions I can approach it from. One has been alerted for a while, so it's a big built-up mess of high Mark ships, about 1200 or so. The other way I have a couple planets of buffer between me and the world, so the alert has been on lower Mark planet that I have been periodically raiding to keep the numbers down. My question is, since I am going to be entirely avoiding the big ugly built up planet by taking my attack around the block, are the ships on that planet likely to do anything when I kill the AI homeworld? It's only ships on the current world that have a chance to break off and attack when their main command post explodes, so I should be safe? Yes/no/maybe? Are they likely to, for example, break and warp through the high mark planet, since it's the most direct route to my worlds, and grab some of their friends on the way, or does the AI not work like that? This is only on difficulty 4, like I said it's my first game. So I may be over thinking this. Although I'm not sure if the difficulty number changes the AI's reactions like this or not.

Secondly, there's an Ion Cannon on the AI homeworld that is all the way on the opposite side of the battlefield from my entry wormhole. How much should I worry about that? If I try to warp in everything and just go grab it immediately, I'll probably take a lot of losses without much gain and manage to get half the system following my fleet. Is it a big enough threat that using an armored warhead to get over and blast it is worth the AIP trade-off, or is that overkill? I'm not sure how big of a threat it should be treated as, but when I see that message than an Ion Cannon is one-shotting my ships, I get panicky.

[x4000]

My question is, since I am going to be entirely avoiding the big ugly built up planet by taking my attack around the block, are the ships on that planet likely to do anything when I kill the AI homeworld? It's only ships on the current world that have a chance to break off and attack when their main command post explodes, so I should be safe? Yes/no/maybe? Are they likely to, for example, break and warp through the high mark planet, since it's the most direct route to my worlds, and grab some of their friends on the way, or does the AI not work like that? This is only on difficulty 4, like I said it's my first game. So I may be over thinking this. Although I'm not sure if the difficulty number changes the AI's reactions like this or not.

You should be safe, yes.  Generally speaking the only risks from already-on-the-map ships are:
1. Cross planet attacks (if one of those comes up and matches their level or higher than their level, which doesn't sound like the case here -- but do be careful of cross planet attack guard posts on the AI homeworlds).
2. Border aggression (which I don't think happens at difficulty 4 -- but you'd run into that regardless of this).
3. Alarm posts or similar (which, if triggered, could cause ships at a neighboring planet to suddenly attack you -- if you don't see any alarm posts, you don't need to worry about that).
4. If you had hybrid hives or other "coordinator" type ships on (which I don't think you do, they are in the CoN expansion and more for advanced play anyway), then they could "draft" ships from those planets into their entourages.

I'd expect that as long as you don't see an alarm post there, at the moment you'd be fine.

Secondly, there's an Ion Cannon on the AI homeworld that is all the way on the opposite side of the battlefield from my entry wormhole. How much should I worry about that? If I try to warp in everything and just go grab it immediately, I'll probably take a lot of losses without much gain and manage to get half the system following my fleet. Is it a big enough threat that using an armored warhead to get over and blast it is worth the AIP trade-off, or is that overkill? I'm not sure how big of a threat it should be treated as, but when I see that message than an Ion Cannon is one-shotting my ships, I get panicky.

Probably the armored warhead is overkill.  It just depends how many ships you have that are lower-level-or-equal-to that ion cannon.  If you have a lot of higher-mark ships, then you can ignore it for a bit.  You might try just rushing it with some starships, or using a transport to get the starships close and then attack it.

I also would note that you should expect to have to make multiple passes at an AI home planet most of the time, or at least that's my typical experience on difficulty 7.  On diff 4 you might be able to do it in one go, but that still seems like it would be dicey.  As long as you take out something permanent on each pass, I'd consider that at least a baseline for success: get at least one guard post, ion cannon, fortress, force field, whatever.  Obviously the more you can do at once the better all around, but getting them ALL in one go seems unlikely.

With that in mind, whatever you can do to minimize the losses you take on your passes will of course result in fewer subsequent passes.  So if you have a lot of lower-level ships, I'd take out that ion cannon.  If there are mass drivers there, and you have a lot of starships, I'd take that out post haste as well (sounds like TZR isn't on, though, so should be none of those).

There's really not one best way to crack a homeworld anymore, they all vary too much now.  I'd just be sure to examine all the various guard posts and the other large weapons (like the ion cannon) to see what seems most dangerous, and/or what you can take out really quick with few losses, and go for those.  Then with the info you learn from that assault, either retreat and regroup, or send in the next wave of your ships to replace your fallen first wave.

Good luck!

[BobTheJanitor]

Thanks! I actually do have CoN and TZR enabled. (got them all in the Steam sale) I probably should have started with fewer options for my first game, but sometimes it's more fun to just jump in head first. After a few hours of play I also bought LotS, so I'll have even more to confuse me on my next game. I'm probably over-thinking my strategy here. I got to the point last night of having an overkill fleet built up and ready to attack. I think the ship numbers on the AI homeworld are below 100, and my fleet is over 1,000 ships. (Which, by the way, watching all those ships consolidate from around the galaxy and warp in to my staging planet is one of those moments in gaming that I love. Gives one a special warm feeling inside. Well, if one is a huge nerd.)

I'm mostly thinking back to the tutorial where my first attack on that AI homeworld was pretty well crushed, and then everything from there warped over to my next planet and turned it into a fine paste. (of course, then it didn't warp back to defend the homeworld, so I just hooked around it through the other wormhole with everything else I had and easily mopped up the rest of the tutorial AI's homeworld... but I'm sure the tutorial AI is playing on "Duh" difficulty) But in this case, I don't think there are any other big surprises waiting on that homeworld, although I'll have to check on the alarm post. I'm not well versed enough to really differentiate the types of guard posts yet, I mostly just see them as targets to keep killing until the main target is no longer covered by the invincibility shields. So some of them might be hiding some surprises for me. But again, I am probably over-planning, especially for difficulty 4. I get discouraged when I'm surprised by something that I didn't even know about until it jumps up to bite me, so I like to get as much research as possible done ahead of time. With a game this vast, that's proving to be a weighty task.

[x4000]

Thanks! I actually do have CoN and TZR enabled. (got them all in the Steam sale) I probably should have started with fewer options for my first game, but sometimes it's more fun to just jump in head first. After a few hours of play I also bought LotS, so I'll have even more to confuse me on my next game.

Thanks for your support!  And, I think the general consensus is you should be okay with the expansion on.  You have more variety, but since a lot of that only comes into play across multiple campaigns, it only increases the complexity of a single campaign a bit.  Anyway, definitely watch out for alarm posts and similar when taking planets, anyway: scouting adjacent planets before taking it is important.

I'm probably over-thinking my strategy here. I got to the point last night of having an overkill fleet built up and ready to attack. I think the ship numbers on the AI homeworld are below 100, and my fleet is over 1,000 ships.

Bear in mind their stuff is mark V, and those core guard posts are really nasty, too.  So it's not neccessarily going to be an overkill situation, but it's good you have an advantage to start with.   They'll also quickly reinforce as you start attacking them, too.

(Which, by the way, watching all those ships consolidate from around the galaxy and warp in to my staging planet is one of those moments in gaming that I love. Gives one a special warm feeling inside. Well, if one is a huge nerd.)

Heh.

I'm mostly thinking back to the tutorial where my first attack on that AI homeworld was pretty well crushed, and then everything from there warped over to my next planet and turned it into a fine paste. (of course, then it didn't warp back to defend the homeworld, so I just hooked around it through the other wormhole with everything else I had and easily mopped up the rest of the tutorial AI's homeworld... but I'm sure the tutorial AI is playing on "Duh" difficulty)

Well, a few things going on there.  For one, some of the "too quick to abandon guarding" logic was a temporary bug for a while there, so depending on what version you were on, you might have run into that.  For another, the AIs in the tutorials aren't allowed to do reinforcements (IIRC), so not only are they on difficulty 1, they are also a crippled diff 1 AI.  Normally by the time you finished dealing with that attack wave from them off their home planet, the home planet would be well protected again by the time you get back.

But in this case, I don't think there are any other big surprises waiting on that homeworld, although I'll have to check on the alarm post. I'm not well versed enough to really differentiate the types of guard posts yet, I mostly just see them as targets to keep killing until the main target is no longer covered by the invincibility shields.

Well, the tooltips are your friend, for sure.  Any ship that is looking large on the planet is something worth reading the description text for.  If it has some sort of crazy abilities that affect the strategic landscape (as opposed to the tactical situation), it will be obvious there.  Those are what you need to be alert for, and scout the planet you are attacking, as well as all adjacent planets, to be sure the coast is clear of that sort of thing.

Then as you attack, you can look at them in more detail to size up the tactical situation more if you like (or if you run into trouble), and a lot of the tactical nuances just become more clear as you get more experience dealing with the various things.  But that description text is invaluable for sizing up if there are any strategic-level risks (alarm posts, raid engines, etc).

So some of them might be hiding some surprises for me. But again, I am probably over-planning, especially for difficulty 4. I get discouraged when I'm surprised by something that I didn't even know about until it jumps up to bite me, so I like to get as much research as possible done ahead of time. With a game this vast, that's proving to be a weighty task.

Well, there's no shame in save-scumming, especially when you're learning.  A lot of times when I run into a particularly interesting scenario that kills me, I'll savescum for a while just to try out different strategies and tactics and to see if the scenario is even winnable given my position in that game, etc.  It's a great way to learn.  Just bear in mind that this is a game of discovery as much as anything else, so you'll never have everything memorized -- it's my game, and I don't even have everything memorized, not even close.  As you said, a quite weighty task with a game this vast.  But, part of the fun of space exploration is supposed to be about running into hitherto-unanticipated situations, so that's the motivation behind all that vastness, to keep that sense of exploration even after you're an expert at the game.

[Tridus]

Raid Starships might be good for this. They're immune to the ion cannon, they can shoot through forcefields (if it's under one), and they're really fast which lets them get to the ion cannon before the AI's defenders can catch up. You could send some of those to take it out and then retreat, particularly if the planet doesn't have a mass driver.

(If you do retreat, I've found the AI will sometimes follow, so have your fleet nearby or run back to a defended world.)