Author Topic: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o  (Read 4103 times)

Offline allmybase

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Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« on: April 08, 2010, 05:32:27 pm »
I love many parts of the game, but it still feels really overwhelming even after I cleared the tutorial 3 or 4 times (it was really fun and instructive to do the tutorial by the way ;D )

I'm familiar with RTS games and I think I understand after doing the tutorials/watching the vids, etc but I'm trying a fairly basic/average game and I'm completely overwhelmed.

My setting is two AI 7's, 80 planets, both are trainmasters (yes, astro trains are on as well). Every option is enabled (yes, fighting against mines, cloaks, etc) except no minor factions. No handicaps either way. The one thing I do "cheat" on is giving myself full vision of the map, but I'm still learning so I'm ok with that for now.

I usually wind up on a planet with 3 or 4 wormholes to start with.

I start by quickly assembling a mostly capped out force of fighters mark 1, 2, and 3 (I find bombers/frigates too expensive to start off with, and fighters can swarm spec posts fine enough with higher marks. Bombers come when I run into force fields).

What I can't manage is the fact that each of the 3 or 4 wormhole connections lead to planets that also have 2-3 additional wormholes after that. One of the problems is that all those astro trains running around wipe out any turrets/tractors near wormholes, but let's say even if I turned off astro trains - that leaves too many wormholes to defend. What I try to do is conserve turret cap/energy limits by going with no tractors at all near wormholes (because too many), but instead stockpiling turrets around the orbital command stations. (home command I dont stockpile turrets for a number of reasons, one being that it has the spacedock to churn out units on demand, another being it starts with a handy force field to give my troops time to clear everything, another being all the wormholes should be cleared surrounding the area so the threat should be less).

It seems like in the tutorial or in very simple types of games it's really easy to hole up the 1-2 wormholes going into your zones, but I just can't seem to manage it when the game is more normal with a starting zone of 4 wormholes and each one leading to more. I take all the surrounding zones just fine but I can't field an effective defense, usually one command station goes down when I'm not paying attention or I'm on the offense somewhere else. Part of the reason is that I can't use tractors effectively due to too many wormholes and astro trains.

Once I lose an orbital command station I just quit because it raises the AI.

And it gets really frustrating when after they destroy one of the adjacent planets they all sneak through to my homeworld and blow up all my resource points. It takes a lot of time to rebuild the economy, and I'm just so frustrated at trying to expand my economy just to have it shrink back when they have too many points of ingress.

I don't want to resort to having to cherry pick maps with really defensible positions because it feels lousy as heck.

What should I be doing? I'm only taking the surrounding planets and I'm already frustrated beyond belief. Is there some specific tech path that would be helpful? Should I deploy force fields on each surrounding planet? Buy some kind of turret? I don't know how to get my baseline planet economy stable so that I can go on the offensive. Of course my aim is to reduce the points of ingress, but off the bat it's not possible with 4 openings and each opening leading to 2 or 3 more openings.

Or should I just try to destroy my orbitals before the AI does (so he doesn't get progress) and just rebuild the economy each time after my army chases him out?

Offline x4000

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2010, 06:06:12 pm »
Well, first off, bear in mind that you're not really playing on a basic/average game at all -- you're playing on an upper-middle game for experienced players of the game, not on something that your average new player is going to have an easy time with.  Generally speaking, when someone is new to the game and playing on diff 7, usually it's against a pair of easier AIs and in a fairly defensible position -- and if you look at a number of the players here, they've lost three or four games before they actually win one even doing that.

When you play against a pair of train masters, that basically means that your defense, everywhere, is going to be hard as heck.  You have to make sure there are no ways that the trains can route through your area if you don't want to be putting counter dark matter turrets all over the place, and that's just going to be really hard in general.  First and foremost, after just reading the first two paragraphs of your post, I'd suggest not playing against train masters, and playing against a lower level AI (5 or 6 is quite popular with many new players with past RTS experience, though some prefer to play 7 and some go straight to 8 after one game of 7).  It's not even a matter of innate skill, really, as it is how compatible the game is with their preferred styles of play and other RTS games they've played.  Those that are coming straight off SupCom have an easier time than those coming from C&C or similar.

Anyway -- and I coded the game, and I only win about 80% of the time on diff 7.  Take that for what you will, I'm a solid RTS player if not a starcraft ladder expert or whatever.

Okay, now to your specific questions, I'll get off my soapbox. :)  You should play how you like, for sure, but if the scenario you chose is giving you way too hard a time, you may want to put it down for now and choose an easier starting scenario. Double train masters is one of those groan scenarios in general, I think a lot of people would say.  Various notes:

1. I think you're in the minority in starting with fighters over bombers and particularly cruisers.  Cruisers and bombers are more expensive, but they die way slower most of the time.  Generally you will take the fewest losses with some balance of the three, leaning towards one of the three, though; they all enhance the survivability of one another.  To be clear, I think your strategy is valid and actually very interesting -- fighters are wicked cheap -- but if you rely too much on that one ship class you're going to have an overall lower ship cap effectively, which makes it harder to defend a lot of planets at once.

2. Regarding the astro trains, I'd strongly suggest counter-dark-matter turrets, which provide protection for your turrets (and everything else) from the astro trains in a limited range.  If you have to play without turrets, that's a huge blow to your ability to defend yourself, and why I think a lot of people don't like astro trains.  I like them in moderation quite a lot, because they make for some interesting challenges, but I also immediately try to adjust their paths to stay off my planets.  Honestly, I'm not sure if I could win a double train master game without counter dark matter turrets, and it would be a challenge even then.

3. When it comes to defending wormholes, I try to get to the point where I have only 3-4 that border my core resource producing areas.  Even if you choose a starting position at random, on the Realistic maps this can be done pretty straightforwardly.  You might need to take 6-8 planets to do it, but you can blockade yourself pretty well.  With gate raids to seal off that part of the surface area that you do have remaining (except for one or two planets), you've got a nice trap for AI Waves.  Then just throw a good number of turrets on there, as well as a good number of tractor beams, and that will help a lot.  I tend to go for mark III command stations, which lets me play most of the game off of around 8ish planets.  Once I have that core set, then I go more for the longer-range raids to capture advanced research stations, etc.  And if I have to set up perimeters out there, that's fine, because I'm assumedly getting some more resources out of that, too, and not really risking my core resource production facilities.  If you're telling me that bombers and cruisers are too expensive, that's telling me that you're too poor for what you're trying to take on at the time, or your bleeding ships faster than you should be in general (which leads to the former).  Not having turrets will do that, which again comes back to why the scenario as you're playing it is so challenging.

4. Please bear in mind that when you lose a command station, it does NOT raise the AI Progress.  That note of "AI Only" on it means that it only goes up when the AI loses a building of that sort.

5. If you're worried about the AI getting to your worlds too quickly and simply cannot defend the inner ones at present, consider making force fields on the far side of the planet you are trying to protect.  That will prevent AI ships from going through until they destroy the force fields.  But, you'll need more planets than just your home planet to really have the economy you need.  If the AI is constantly destroying your resource points on specific planets, you could consider harvester exo-force-fields.  Those will pretty much prevent the loss of any of those harvesters (mostly), but they'll also eat up the equivalent of I think 1/3 of what those harvesters produce.  So you'd have to take more planets, but you wouldn't have to defend those planets as well to keep your economy going.  It's a tradeoff that some players really like, and others can't stand.

6. You may already be doing this, but when you are taking new planets, don't just look at how many connections they have: look at how many new connections they have outside of the immediate area, and to higher-level planets.  If you take 4-8 planets all in a cluster, odds are fair you can do so in a way that a huge bulk of their connections point between each other.  So instead of 8x4= 32 connections leading into enemy territory, you might have only 6-12 total connections leading out into hostile territory, or even fewer if you happen to be on a lucky map.  Then, with gate raiding on some of those planets that are connecting in, that's how you cut it down even further.  Part of the strategy of expanding outwards is figuring out which planets give you the best benefit, while also not exposing your flanks too much.  The hubs or grid maps are vastly harder in that regard, while snake and tree are way easier in that respect.  But each of those map styles has different challenges or benefits, such as it's very easy to "deep" raid on hub and grid because everything is so close, while with a snake or tree it's hard to get anywhere, and easy to get stuck at a bottleneck without transports.



So here's my general thought: when you take up a sport, you don't go straight to playing it at a college varsity level.  That's essentially what you are doing here, even though you are not going straight to "pro" in that analogy.  My suggestion is to cut yourself a break and take a map that is more defensible and not full of astro trains.  As you play it further, you'll get a more intuitive grasp of how to protect yourself, what works and what doesn't, how to do a quick rush for early planets to protect your economy, and then how to shore up those planets without taking much while you protect those borders.  You'll also get a sense for what's an acceptable one-time loss that you can easily absorb and rebuild, and what's something that is going to set you back so far that you're on the path to an eventual loss.  Even if you stay at diff 7, playing against two of the other easier AI types and on a map that has a starting 6-8 planets that you can comfortably conquer and create a bottleneck in to will really help.

It's not taking the easy way out or anything: it's simply recognizing that this is a complex game, and that difficulty 7 is where the "true" AI is fully there, but it's also quite a hard difficulty level.  If you work up to the scenario that is currently frustrating you, you won't find it so frustrating.  But even a lot of the most expert players here would find it a fairly frustrating one just due to the masses and masses of trains, I think.

Other unlocks that you may want to consider just in general:

- Transports can really make a ton of things easier, which you may already know.
- Starships can be an awesome force multiplier (fleet), or a great raiding force (raid/leech).  Or, you can even use riot starships to help protect your borders there by shooting out the engines on the enemy ships.
- Spider turrets can also be a great deterrent engine-wise, but they cost really a ton of resources, so that would not be the best choice in your current situation.

Hope that, and the other suggestions here, helps! 
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Offline drum

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 06:18:25 pm »
I just finished a really noobish game, AI diff 5 (moderate types) no mines, trains or starships, took 2 starting systems for the extra ships & resources (tho that does double the incoming waves) & a +50% handicap....

It was great fun!! Tho i think i spoiled the end a bit by using the transport decoy tactic to take out the ai homeworlds, ah well :)

I think playing at a lower diff with a few things turned off can really help to understand the massive amount of stuff thats going on, though i doubt i'll ever like trains & mines :P
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 06:21:46 pm by drum »

Offline x4000

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 06:29:29 pm »
Yeah -- it's important to play what is fun for you, for sure.  Makes no sense to try to immediately compete with people who have logged hundreds or thousands of hours, unless that is fun.  I probably should be playing on diff 8 myself if I was to play really at my "true" skill level, but you know what?  I like winning 80% of the time.  Granted, I lost my last three games in a row and still had a blast, but I play diff 7 specifically because I like the game to be slightly more relaxed than it otherwise would be for me.  And I've been playing this for 18 months now, longer than any other person anywhere, and have intimate knowledge of all the game mechanics and ships (aside from some of the new ones Keith put in, which I just have not used as much yet).
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Offline allmybase

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 06:47:04 pm »
Wow thanks for the massive reply  :o

I'm trying to digest it all - thanks for the great specific information as well as pep talk. I still feel like I'm having to go backwards in difficulty, but maybe it's really what I have to do until I get better, which I want to :)

A couple of things/questions while I'm digesting and trying new strategies-

1) I realized my all fighter early tactic has a major major flaw. The enemy happened to have bulletproof fighters  ::)

2) What does gate raiding really accomplish? I was reading the community wiki and it was saying there are situations where enemy waves appear from nowhere - because while they have no immediate gate connections, they do still warp things to their planets and then walk them over.

Obviously you should gate raid any planets surrounding home base, but it doesn't seem like gate raiding accomplishes anything besides give the AI progress since they still gate things to adjacent planets and move them over. Really confused on this aspect.

3) I was reading that you take a planet on average every 45 minutes. Does this apply early game too? Do you really focus on taking one planet and shoring it up to where you don't have to watch it every few seconds? Maybe I'm trying a little too much, I usually send a smash force of capped fighter 2s/3s and wipe all comand centers adjacent to me and try to build up 2 bases at the same time. I was thinking like fast expanding really helps the economy, but maybe it's just not feasible on all types of maps.

Offline x4000

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 08:14:43 pm »
My pleasure!

To your comments/questions:

1. Yes, that's a great example of needing to adjust tactics based on intel.  Your fighter tactic might work really excellently sometimes (if the AI specializes in starships and bombers, for instance), but really really poorly others.  Don't try to find too much of a "best path" for the early game, because if you just apply only what you learned from past games without taking careful note of the current situation, you're in for trouble.  There are general things that I do similarly every time (economy focus, early land grab, certain turrets, not many starships, etc), but there are a lot of other things that are different each and every time.

2. The AI will always attack your planets directly if possible.  That rule you are referring to only kicks in if there is literally no way for them to do that.  So, this is a case where you can intentionally direct the AI to attack at a specific point or set of points by leaving them only a single or pair of ingress points.  If you over-raid and clear out all the gates, then you're absolutely right, you've just defeated the purpose of it.  But done correctly, it can be an immensely powerful tactic, and it's another thing I doubt I could win without on most maps.  Granted, as soon as you take a new planet you have a whole new set of ingress points, and you shouldn't just automatically gate raid everything, but at least keeping the openings away from your core resource producing areas, and anything else you really don't want destroyed (advanced factories, for instance) is a really huge benefit.  Just not carried to the full extreme.

3. Well, that was really an average, and that doesn't apply to every play style or every map.  If the AI is really defensive, you might take fewer planets overall and take them more slowly, for example.  And you're right, generally speaking at the start of the game it's best to take out all the planets you can as fast as possible.  I think I typically take my first planet at around 10 to 15 minutes in, and a second at 30 minutes maybe, and a third by the end of the first hour.  Of course, that also varies, but that is true.  By the middle game, things slow down a bit because I'm having to consolidate my borders and I'm putting resources and time into scouting, knowledge raiding, gate raiding, and other such pursuits.  But even then, it's probably a planet every two hours at absolute worst, and often that longer period only comes when a real tough nut that we have to take comes up.  Then once that is done, there's typically a spree of taking easier planets because in order to take that big one the strength of my empire has had to increase to match it, making me then overmatched for a few things on the other side, which is a nice change.  Then the next hardened target or deep-raid target comes up, and so on and so forth.  So it tends to be really uneven for me, but if I play an 80 planet game and it lasts for about 13 hours, I'll be taking a planet every 30-45 minutes or so on unweighted average throughout the life of that game (as in, 20-30 planets divided by 13 hours).

Good luck!
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Offline superking

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 09:22:19 pm »
honestly, just disable astrotrains.

almost every player I have spoken to plays with them off, because they add very little to the game except repetetive frustration

Offline x4000

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2010, 09:29:52 pm »
honestly, just disable astrotrains.

almost every player I have spoken to plays with them off, because they add very little to the game except repetetive frustration

Personally I love them, and my group of alpha testers gets a lot out of them.  It's not knowing how to deal with them (or having too too many of them) that is the killer.  Most players seem to give up, deeming them too frustrating, before they really figure out how to deal with them.
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Offline wyvern83

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2010, 11:27:50 pm »
I like the extra activity astrotrains bring to my systems.

I use the FRD Engineer node so I just let them shoot my stuff. I'm playing a Fortress Baron and a Tank AI 5s for my first game though so my perspective is different from allmybase. (and great name by the way ;))

Offline Awod

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 12:07:15 am »
A lot of nice information in this thread, a good read. Thanks.

Offline allmybase

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 12:54:09 am »
If you would oblige me again mr game designer, before I gather more courage to try again

1) I noticed that AI progress dribbles up by 1 every so often - even though I have set the AI to go up by zero points every zero minutes (which according to the tooltip means never). What causes an AI increase of +1? I didn't read anything in that list on the wiki to suggest any thing like that.

2) What would you call a good "default AI" setting to fight against? I guess double trainmasters is "too hard" to be a good starting point, but I read the other AIs and they all seem extremely aggravating too. I can't imagine fighting double anything really; I mean 2 turtles? You'd take forever trying to get any resources. Double mad bombers? Sounds as bad a defensive nightmare as double trainmasters. The only thing I can think of is "neutering" AI by setting double trainmasters and then removing astrotrains lol.

3) How would you specifically expand your economy in the situation I gave? Let's say for a minute that astrotrains are off, or at least that they are severely limited and not double train masters. I really had trouble getting off the floor, I couldn't decide how best to spend the energy or design an offensive fleet while balancing defense while not squandering away all the metal/crystal income.

You start on a planet with 4 wormholes. Each wormhole goes to a different direction, and each one of those planets has 2 or 3 additional connections (really 3-4 wormholes per adjacent planet, but one is simply going back to your homeplanet obviously).

Off the bat you probably say build at least 1 tractor per wormhole + 10 or so turrets per wormhole. This will soon be woefully inadequate and you will need at least 2 tractors + 15-20 per wormhole, but probably not quite yet.

How big of a fleet do you build? Do you build an engineer to help create troops faster, or wait until you expand because of the energy cost? Do you wait until you use up almost all the energy before heading out? Do you build a mark 1 reactor to get additional energy, or is that inefficient? When you smash a planet early, how many forces do you bring? How many forces do you leave behind on the home planet? Do you find that the enemy still manages to sneak raptors around and disrupt your economy despite your best efforts?



Offline RCIX

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 12:59:02 am »
I usually play without astrotrains, but i find if you just build Counter-Dark-Matter turrets and destroy as many train stations as you can, it's not so bad.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2010, 09:09:12 am »
I personally never had much issue with trains. They fly through and do superficial damage at most. Then again, I never went up against a double trainmaster. That does sound like a challenge.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2010, 09:35:21 am »
Glad the info was helpful, Awod, my pleasure.

allmybase, to your last batch of questions (and that is a great name, by the way):

1. Most likely you are killing ships that have a positive AIP cost of +1.  The full list of what causes that is here, but it's also in the tooltips in game.  My guess is that it was from train stations and/or special forces guard posts that you were killing.  +1 is a really minor increase, I wouldn't worry about that overmuch.

2. Well... the answer to that really depends on playstyle.  Honestly I'd suggest doing two different AI types, as that can make for more of a balance.  If you find extensive offense tedious, then turtles or things close to them are not the way to go (but since they never attack you via waves -- though still CPAs -- you'll have more resources than you were thinking, thanks to saving a ton on your insurance... I mean defense ;)).  If you find defense to be overly challenging, then something like mad bomber is probably not the way to go.  The Entrenched Homeworlder is basically one of the most average types of AIs all around, with moderate attack and defense capabilities.  Fortress Baron is another one that was a traditional average AI type that I always liked.  Doing one of each of those might be a good starting fit.

3. Well, this third one is really hard to answer without really being able to see the map.  If you want to post a screenshot of it, I could give a more intelligent answer to it.  But basically, the early game for me looks like this (I emphasize me, because not everybody plays even remotely like this):

-Game Starts.
-Start docks building scouts, followed by a mix of fighters/bombers/cruisers
-Build another 1 or possibly 2 engineers, depending.
-Start sending out those scouts in groups along the various wormholes that connect in.

Up to this point, it's pretty much formulaic for me.  Also, this covers the first 20ish seconds of the game only. ;)  From this point on, things start changing up a bit depending on the situation.  Mostly I spend the next 2-3 minutes analyzing the scout data, and looking at the AI planet formations, as well as peeking at what sort of fleets ships they are using, so that I can decide what sort of technologies I might want to invest in.  The line of decision making that triggers off is immensely huge and varied, and not something I can really summarize without writing a full-blown strategy guide to the game.  The main thing is that I am looking at their planets, deciding which seem like targets and which seem like things to gate-raid and then wall off.

-Next up I unlock some technologies based on what I decided.
-I also build more scouts and send them out, since probably my first batches are dead now.
-I may even unlock tech II scouts at this early juncture to send out those as well, if scouting is really tough at the moment.
-I probably need a Mark I energy reactor, but no more than that if there is a nearby planet I can just go take.
-If the AI is particularly aggressive, I might build turrets and tractors at a given wormhole, but otherwise I'll just leave myself hanging open for attack.  No worries, usually.
-Now I'll probably attack a planet and take it.  I go for the most resource-rich of all the planets that are low-level and can easily be taken.

Personally, I tend to go straight for a mkII command station on that planet.  Highest-tier ships and starships and better turrets, etc, can wait, as far as I am concerned.  I want the cash now -- and having so much cash, I can make do with just mark I ships and maybe 2 mark II classes or on II/III combo.  But I find mark IIIs not really worth it until later, unless I need to break a planet with an ion cannon early on in.  Again, so my strategy there really varies heavily, and if I need that mark III muscle then I'll wait until later for my command station upgrades.

-At this point, I might take a second and/or a third easy early planet.  The idea being to capture them quickly before they have a chance to get too strong, and then worrying about actually fully capturing and exploiting them once that is done.  With just low-level ships, my economy is doing just fine, and I'm a powerhouse against these little planets (for now).
-Alternatively, in rare circumstances if there is a high level planet nearby that I just know I will need to take for some reason, I might invest more in higher mark ships and try to take that out.  That involves a lot of advanced strategies such as potentially popping their command station early and then playing defense, or things of that nature.  Depends on their position, my position, etc.

Regarding the planets that I capture, when I do get around to building on them each of those might get a force field around their command station, but probably not.  Most likely I'll just put some turrets near the command station to keep the AI from destroying that.  The AI ships that trickle in mostly will leave my resources alone if they think they can take out my command station.

Next up, I generally look at the other surrounding planets and see if there are more targets that would make sense, and which would cut down on the number of ingress points into my most resource-rich planets.  Generally speaking I like to have a "whipping boy" planet that just gets slammed with waves and incoming ships, and which I reinforce heavily with turrets, etc.  Even if this planet is resource-rich, I don't really worry about trying to keep those resource harvesters non-destroyed.  As long as this planet is protecting my other planets, I'm good.

As I get more wealthy and more powerful in general, I push my borders outward, mainly in an attempt to close off more wormholes while at the same time getting more resource-producing planets.  Ideally there are only one or two whipping boys at a time, and which planets are the whipping boy might change as I go depending on how this is all set up.  Then end result of this process is generally that I have secured 4-8 planets that are very well defended, and I have one or two whipping boys that are under constant threat and which I have extensive defenses on.

The focus of the whipping boys is not to protect themselves, but to protect the other planets behind them.  Usually this just means strong wormhole defense on the whipping boy itself, but it could also involve force fields over the wormholes leading to my more important planets.  I should also note that I tend to lose the command stations on whipping boys periodically, and I tend to have a colony ship standing by to rebuild.  This is okay, as long as you don't have just a single point of wave entry into  your systems (since you don't want waves coming at you from way out).  

I also build some turret/tractor defenses on my inner planets to protect against those ships that might slip past from the whipping boys.  How many I build, and where, depends on what types of ships the AI is using, primarily. If they are bomber-heavy, I need heavy defenses.  If it's something that gets caught in tractors and easily killed by turrets, then lighter defenses are better.  Generally speaking even at the lightest wormhole defenses I build 5 tractor beam Is, maybe 10-15 basic/mlrs/laser turrets (some mix of those).  A "heavily defended wormhole," commonly found on a whipping boy bottleneck, usually for me has more like 15-25 tractors, and maybe 50-200 turrets of various sorts.  The goal is that when the AI warps in a wave, the entire thing gets caught and killed in under 10 seconds.

That sort of defense won't hold forever, but it makes a great fly trap for the AI early in the game.  And even then, you have to be prepared for what happens if they suddenly and unexpectedly break through that trap, which they will do every so often.  That's usually when I lose a whipping boy command station, and if I'm really unlucky another string of command stations that were resource producing behind it.  That's frustrating, but it happens, and you can simply rebuild and make sure your defenses are better next time.

In short, I guess, you have to concede the fact that you are going to get beat up somewhere.  Where do you want that to be?  You want it to be a planet that you consider noncritical to your income, and which provides a sufficient shield to your other planets.  Then getting beat up there isn't a tragedy, it's all part of your plan.  It's, to some degree, a decoy or at least a diversionary tactic.  The challenge is that, as you (necessarily) grow, the AI has more and more potential choices of target, and it is harder to protect all your planets.  As long as you have a really strong core of planets by the mid-game, you can weather the inevitable occasional losses (or strings of losses) without worry.  

Generally the reason for a loss of that magnitude is that you were busy taking something from the AI at the time.  That's a great tradeoff, usually, because the AI can't take back it's planets, while you can.  I have literally been in multiplayer games where I had 6 planets out of the total of 14 that our team of four had, and I lost all  6 of my planets (including my home) in one big sweep.  Whoops.  But then it's a matter of rebuilding (in multiplayer you don't lose until all your teams homes are lost), and then pressing onwards.  Those same games where those sort of sweeps have happened have also been victories for my team (sometimes -- some of those were also losses, haha).  But anyway, taking a sweeping loss is not the end of the game usually, and if you are playing a risky situation where you keep just enough defenses to hold off the average waves while you use more of your income in an offensive rush, then you'll have to expect to weather some losses of your own.  Really comes down to how aggressive you are, what you consider acceptable losses, and your playstyle in general.

I know some players capture a corner of the galaxy with maybe 6-10 planets in it, simply for the security of having 1 ingress point into that whole section if they are lucky.  Then they can go raiding with impunity, for instance.  All depends on your play style, what feels most comfortable and fun to you.
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Offline allmybase

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Re: Getting frustrated too early in the game O_o
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 11:54:20 am »
Mmmmm scrumptious reply  :o

Yup my name reflects my losing streak to the AI lol  :P

Another question if you would be so kind:

Typically early on all the planets surrouding your homeplanet, they each increase your ingress points. And very typically, each one of the paths further branching out from the immediately adjacent planets further increase your ingress points. You may close one or if you're lucky two ingress points, but it opens up 2-3 more usually.

I noticed you said you look for planets which reduce your total ingress points which is brilliant, but with the above in mind, how do you close your ingress points?

To read in between the lines - I didn't see you explicitly list this as one of your early game considerations, but am I assuming correctly? - that you conduct gate raids extremely early in the game to create your whipping boy(s)? I don't see it as possible when you start with 4 ingress points, and then while you do close the ones going into your homeworld, you create 7+ more adjacencies to your frontline.