Author Topic: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.  (Read 5633 times)

rubikscube

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2010, 07:06:49 pm »
o yah, teleporting things i heard were pretty op when microed, in theory, they should never die.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 11:24:34 pm »
Well, I'm still going on the game with the mirrors and fortresses and I'm making (slow) progress.

I've actually captured a system and gotten my command station and some defenses up and have blown up a second command station, but actually building mine in the second system will have to wait until after the CPA that has 5 minutes left on it's timer.

My biggest issue now is energy production. A while ago, there was a thread on the different energy reactors and the production per resource as you built more, does anyone know where to find that? Forum search fails me and I don't see it in either wiki.

I'm sitting at 2 Mk III, 7 Mk II and 6 Mk I energy reactors across my two systems and still running out, mostly because of the fortresses mind you, at 50K energy each, they are not cheap.

Regardless, not sure how long I'm going to continue this game, I'm not stuck or anything, but I'm at 5 hours played and have only captured a single system. Even speeding the game up, this is taking forever.

Although Leach Starships are fun, I've captured a couple hundred ships from the AI now, although I'm not really sure what I'm going to do with an acid sprayer.

D.

Offline superking

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2010, 12:13:26 am »
make turret beachheads on neighbouring AI planets, put reactors inside

Offline Diazo

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 01:12:47 pm »
Alright.

Time for a total strategy shift.

It's pretty much impossible to have more then one active warp gate, at least in the early game before you can get several Mk II or III turrets unlocked.

So, start a new game with space planes to gate raid first thing, resulting in only one warp point to defend.

As you know where the eaves are coming from, you can actually defend the warp point this way rather then having to build defenses at your command station and wait for the waves to come to you.

It seems to be working okay so far, I'm still having energy issues though. The turret beachhead idea is good, but it's harder then in sounds on diff 10, made even harder by the fact I'm facing a lot of snipers. Not sure if it's a Sniper AI type, or just that's the special but there are both mobile and turret snipers all over the place.

As a side note, snipers priority target engineers for some reason, my engineers are living a shorter time then my fighters are :/

D.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 01:15:09 pm by Dazio »

Offline superking

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 03:30:50 pm »
just use anti-sniper turrets

Offline Diazo

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 08:09:04 pm »
Alright.

I'm still bashing my head against this and I think I'm making progress in that I'm surviving longer on average.

However, in every game I have survived and gotten somewhat settled in, I'm running up against the turret repair cost wall.

What I mean is the waves being sent in are so heavy that I'm losing turrets left and right and I'm having to sink all my resources into replacing my turrets, leaving me nothing to build my fleet with.

So, how do you keep your turrets alive? I'm currently doing what I believe is a pretty standard warp point defense with the turrets back at about 80% of their max range and spamming them.

For reference, I had Mk I and II MLRS turrets, Mk I Laser turrets and Mk I Basic turrets built up to the cap of each of them, I stopped the wave handily, but I still lost 120 turrets destroyed. I can't afford the repair bills from losses like that so how do I avoid them? Keep in mind I'm still in only my home system, I don't have the knowledge to unlock a bunch of Mk II and III turrets.

D.

Offline superking

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 11:24:10 pm »
Quote
So, how do you keep your turrets alive? I'm currently doing what I believe is a pretty standard warp point defense with the turrets back at about 80% of their max range and spamming them.

For reference, I had Mk I and II MLRS turrets, Mk I Laser turrets and Mk I Basic turrets built up to the cap of each of them, I stopped the wave handily, but I still lost 120 turrets destroyed. I can't afford the repair bills from losses like that so how do I avoid them? Keep in mind I'm still in only my home system, I don't have the knowledge to unlock a bunch of Mk II and III turrets.

D.

you havnt really given enough info for a detailed response, so just general advice:

dont use basic turrets, they are fragile and do little damage to shielded units

dont bother unlocking laser turrets in this situation, unlock missle turrets instead- they have huge HP

use beam turrets, they are extremely cost effective and a full shipcap (12) does incredi-damage from very long range.

if you are using zenith mirrors, leave 50+ mirrors on the wormhole permamently. non-missle attackers will largely self-pwn.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 11:43:10 pm by superking »

Offline RCIX

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 11:42:05 pm »
In addition to that, a single MRS placed at prime spot on your turret blob, will help the longevity of almost anything immensely. You might want some fortrii too (as those are tougher).
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2010, 12:30:56 pm »
dont bother unlocking laser turrets in this situation, unlock missle turrets instead- they have huge HP

Unlock MLRS turrets.  They do 4x (or better) the damage of Missile turrets, and any loss in durability is offset by packing a significantly larger punch.

Offline RCIX

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2010, 06:29:49 pm »
Ah, but bombers shred MLRS. Missile turrets are decent enough against them.
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Offline superking

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2010, 08:59:04 am »
dont bother unlocking laser turrets in this situation, unlock missle turrets instead- they have huge HP

Unlock MLRS turrets.  They do 4x (or better) the damage of Missile turrets, and any loss in durability is offset by packing a significantly larger punch.

MRLS are superior at quickly stopping enemies, but inferior in protracted combat (where they die easily). since the issue at hand is that replacing turrets is costing too much...

Offline Diazo

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2010, 12:46:56 pm »
dont bother unlocking laser turrets in this situation, unlock missle turrets instead- they have huge HP

Unlock MLRS turrets.  They do 4x (or better) the damage of Missile turrets, and any loss in durability is offset by packing a significantly larger punch.

MRLS are superior at quickly stopping enemies, but inferior in protracted combat (where they die easily). since the issue at hand is that replacing turrets is costing too much...

I've actually figured out a trick to keeping MLRS turrets alive. Not sure how viable it actually is because it's expensive in terms of both knowledge and resources. There are 3 parts, the first being that most waves make a beeline for you command station, so the turrets have to be offset to the side of this path so they are out of range of the shorter range units. I use about 8000 for the MLRS which have a 10000 range. Second, as there are several units who don't go for the command station, build a couple force fields between the turrets and the wormhole, the turrets have the range to shoot over the force fields and the hostile ships have to go the long way around, buying time for the turrets. (I'm assuming you have gravitational turrets so the ships move slow enough to make this worthwhile.) Lastly, as frigates are the most common long range unit the AI sends at you, build some counter missile turrets to protect your turrets from them. They do cost 4k knowledge, but being able to kill 600 frigates without losing a thing is a nice feeling. The only other dangerous ship that uses missiles are Anti-Armors though, 4k might be steep to counter a single ship type. (The game I unlocked counter missile I didn't try to expand, was just testing.)

Having said that, the next game I play and that I will actually playing, not just testing, I'm taking Grenade Launchers. How did I miss these things before? Because the ships come through clumped up, they hit most of the wave and a full salvo of Mk I's at cap is 108,000 damage to everything in an area. Most waves just vanish when hit by that.

I am going to run one more test game before my next for real game to see if Grenade Launchers and Area Mines are strong enough that I don't need turret spam as well. I'll still need some turrets of course, but if I don't need 300+ turrets sitting on the warp point, that frees up a lot of resources for my offense.

D.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2010, 12:31:59 am »
Alright.

I suppose this doesn't qualify as Double Godlike any more, but after beating my head against that for several games now, I've given up on it for now. I don't have the skill/experience for it at the moment.

Having said that, I started a game going for Double Paragon and I am doing not too badly. (Paragon is the same as Godlike, except the bonus percentage modifiers are used.)

However, I know I am using tactics that are wasteful in resources so I'm not sure how much of what I learn from this I'll be able to transfer to a Double Godlike game.

My exact setup is as follows:

Map Seed 188476563, 80 planets, Realistic, Grenade Launchers selected, 300% Player Resource Bonus.
AI 1: Entrenched Homeworlder, Diff 10, No Resource Bonus/Penalty
AI 2: Grav Driller, Diff 10, No Resource Bonus/Penalty
Complex Ships, all enabled except Astro Trains are disabled.
Fast & Dangerous, Full Fog of War, No Cheats, Unexplored Planets Shown
All minor factions enabled, no AI modifiers enabled.
No AI plots enabled.

As of 6:30 play time, my galaxy map looks like this: http://members.shaw.ca/diazo/AIwarMapDiazo.jpg

I've captured four planets, two were Mk I worlds, one Mk III and one Mk IV. I had no choice but to capture a Mk IV this early in the game. The Mk IV world was the one with 62 of my ships on it at the moment. Note how that blocks my starting position in with a Mk IV world one or two hops in any direction from my homeworld.

My next observation is that scouting is hard. I've only scouted as far as I have due to sacrificing transports to get my scouts though the first and second worlds. I don't have Mk II scouts unlocked yet, but I can't afford the knowledge. :/

The reason for that is among my first unlocks were the Jammer command stations and Counter Missile Turrets. Those 2 things alone cost 9000 knowledge. But they are the only reason I have gotten as far as I have. Note the wave size coming at me in the attached screenshot, while that is a larger then average wave, it is not much larger then average, I can only afford to have one open warp point at a time to defend, hence the jammer stations. The 5k knowledge is more then saved in the reduced turret counts I need to defend only the single wormhole, but it still hurts this early in the game. Counter-missile turrets are to neutralize the frigates. Surprisingly, in the numbers coming at me, a wave of frigates is more dangerous then a wave of bombers and the counter missile turrets negate frigates totally.

As for tactics and the wasting of resources on them, some of what I've been doing is a follows:

To neutralize a ion cannon: Transport my full ship cap of fighters/bombers/frigates in, unload right on top of the ion cannon. With only a little luck, the ion cannon will go down, but I lose every ship I send in. This was on a Mk IV world mind you, but without starships I really have no other way to do so.

The Jammer Command stations. At -20 metal/crystal and 35k energy, it costs me 36 metal/crystal and 75k energy to use a jammer station instead of a regular command station.

The transport scouting: sacrificing a transport to get my scouts a planet farther out.

Sacrificing gravity turrets: I haven't bothered building any tractor beams as even Mk III turrets can't stop enough ships to be useful so I went straight to gravity turrets. However, I'm losing 2 of these on average every time a wave comes which adds up and 5k crystal per turret. At least they are usually the only turrets I lose. :/


Anyways, my immediate goals now are to knowledge raid and scout farther out somehow. The knowledge raiding is straightforward, but the scouting is still stumping me. I may have to go Mk II scouts, but I really want to spend the knowledge on other stuff..

D.

Offline superking

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2010, 06:58:30 am »
always get MK II scouts

rubikscube

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Re: Double Godlike on a 'typical' setup.
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2010, 07:44:42 pm »
from what you need, transport scouting is enough, unless you're trying to find the core command station? even taht, just roam the galaxy with your fleet.

i always capture ion cannons.