Dont Suppose Anyone Cant Tell Me What I'm Doing Wrong???

[jadedamion]

i'm nearing the 40 hour mark and seem to be stuck i can defend indefinitely but if i get to far away they'll whipe me because not enough turrets to defend yet i cant keep stations up to even steal knowledge. was just hoping someone can give me some insite that might get me moving again

[Hearteater]

I'm at work so I can't check out the save, but if you give me a little more info, maybe I can make some suggestions:
1) What difficulty are you playing on, and against which AI types?
2) What expansions do you have?
3) What is you AIP at?
4) Do you have Core Shield Generators turned on?
5) Have you scouted every system?  Have you at least found both enemy home worlds?

[jadedamion]

all expansions
difficulty 7
ai cant remember the name but they are the ones with the grav drills
normal ship amount 1 starting base

i have a nice 1 way out choke point where i have set up to guard 10 or 11 systems i did econo upgrades max for resorce command station and harvesters and all my ships are maxed except a new one i recently got everything was going great (alittle slower than i thought) untill i got all setup here..no clue where the homeworlds are never even thought to scout out and find them.. i dont know if core shield thing is turn on but i believe it is if its what i am thinking about where you have to take out the scattered core shield units befor you can attack the homeworld...

[Hearteater]

Rough steps:
1) You need the entire map scouted
If you haven't unlocked Scout II at least, this could be very difficult.  You need to find all the CSGs (Core Shield Generators), everything that reduces AIP, and the AI Homeworlds.  If you are having trouble getting Scouts out there, suicide Mark I Missile Frigates into systems to kill all the Tachyon Guardians.  This takes a little time, and builds up some threat, so don't bother with systems unless you are having trouble getting scouts out in that direction.  Basically, for each system you kill all the Tachyon Guardians in, your Scouts can get about one hop further.

You just need to peek into each system to find what you need.  Don't worry about keeping a scout alive in the system.  You need information, not pickets.  If the AI has an unlocked ship type with Tachyon Beams (Sentinel Frigates for example) scouting will be much tougher.  You'll probably need to resort to Transports to get your scouts a one or two system head start.

Send scouts grouped by Mark.  Sending Mark I and II together doesn't work well.  Pull your scout pickets off adjacent systems so you can send a bigger mob.  Basically, if you can trivially replace a picket, pull it out until you've finished your scouting.  You can also send a Scout Starship with your Scouts to get them further.  Make sure to Group-Move them in that case.  This is especially useful if the AI has Sentinel Frigates or Snipers, as the Scout Starship will protect your Scouts from sniper fire.

On most maps with 60-80 systems and up, unlocking Scout IIIs is very helpful to make this process go faster.

2) You want to raid every AIP reducer you can
Get any Data Centers can find when you get a chance, but do all 4 Co-Processors very close together (raid in toughest to easiest to reach order).  It is ideal to do the Co-Processors after the Data Centers generally, unless you've already killed one or more Co-Processors.

For these raids, use Raid Starships.  Put all 3 in a Transport and micro them on suicide missions if needed.  On Data Centers that are only a few hops out, use a Transport with Mark I Bombers to save you the time of rebuilding the Raid Starships.  Don't waste your Raid Starships.  If they are suiciding, after taking out the Data Center, consider using their last few moments alive to knock out Ion Cannons.

3) If you find a Super Terminal, it may be worth it to use
There is only one Super Terminal, and not every map has one.  If you do find one, and you haven't done a lot of hacking, this can be a very good option to knock off 50-100 or so AIP.  Without additional information I'll skip the details of how to go about this.

4) Plan out the CSG systems you need to take
You need to figure out which systems you will take to knock out the CSG networks.  You need one each of B, C, D and E.  You need to take 4 of the 5 in the A network.  Look at each planet and make your determinations based on what you get from it and where it is located.  Ideally, you want to be able to use these systems as stepping stones to the AI homeworlds.  That means you need to be able to get within four systems of both homeworlds with what you select.  The CSG-A networks are always on ARS planets, so you might want to try and sneak a Science Lab II (it has cloaking) in and see what ship would get unlocked (look on the ARS tab, the left-most ship is the default unlock).

5) Clear a path
You need to start clearing a path to homeworld.  This means clearing systems of everything except the AI Command Stations and anything else they have that would give AIP if killed.  Try and avoid picking a path that involves a Black Hole Machine, because you have no choice but to incur AIP going through such a system (you need to either kill the BHM or claim the system, both give you AIP).  If you have enough firepower to kill Wormhole Guard Posts quickly, consider knocking them out too, but only on the wormholes that are part of the path you are taking to the homeworlds.  Basically, you want nothing spawning in the sytem (except the Command Station) that will be in range of a convoy travelling to destroy their homeworld.

?) Set up a cheese choke point
Ok, you have a Grav Driller AI.  If I recall, his Gravity Drills are capturable.  By taking one of his systems and setting up your choke with the Grav Drill intact, you can create a near-invulnerable choke point.  Here is an example of one I set up in an 8/8 game.  The second and third picture show the layout.

Once you get all that done, you should be ready to knock out the CSGs and then drop the home worlds.

[jadedamion]

ok i thought i was seeing things the first time it happen but now i know i'm not SOMETHING is causing the AI to JUMP UP 100 out of nowhere i'm not even doing anything i was sitting here watching my army get rebuilt from his last attack on my world lol WTF

[Hearteater]

The AIP jumped up 100, or the Threat jumped 100?  AIP jumping 100 when you aren't doing anything could be a Captive Human Settlement, but that is a minor faction you'd have to have enabled, and you get an hour warning before you have to deal with it.  There are very few other things that would add 100 AIP without you doing anything.

[Kahuna]

So you're playing vs 2 7diff Grav Drillers.
Your settings (Stats-->Scores/Galaxy Stats)


You have unlocked MarkIIIs of all fleet ships except Laser Gatlings. I don't recommend doing that unless you have an easy access to an Advanced Factory. Without the Advanced Factory MarkIIIs are overpriced in Knowledge. If you do have an AF you get MarkIIIs and IV for 1 price. Which is a good deal. You have also unlocked MarkIII Harvesters AND Economic Command Stations. I think MarkIII Harvesters are enough (and usually better than MarkIII Ecomomic CSs).

MarkII Riot Control Starships (dat engine damage!) are a very good unlock. If you know you will use the Advanced Factory and use MarkIV ships you could unlock additional Flagships (dat attack boost!).

I noticed you don't have any Starships! Max resources but no Starships! Never underestimate the Starships. Or maybe you just forgot them? Anyway.. they can win you a fight you would have lost without them.

MarkI Gravitational Turrets are a must! I think everyone should always unlock those. Very useful. Good! You have unlocked MarkII Basic and Missile Turrets. And Spider Turrets! Those 3 are good defensive unlocks. You haven't unlocked MarkI Heavy Beam Cannons however (which cost only 500 Knowledge)! Depending on your play style.. later in the game you should unlock MarkII Gravitational Turrets. MarkII Tractors are good too (I'm very defensive myself). Depending on situation you could consider unlocking MarkII Laser Turrets too (or instead of something else).

Good! You have unlocked MarkII Hardened Forcefields. Hardeneds > Normals. Even vs Bombers. If you're gonna use the Mod Fort you might wanna unlock the normal ones though.. or you could just use Missile Turrets modules instead of Shield modules.. so many options. Oh.. I just noticed you don't have the Ancient Shadows expansion. kk. Mod Fort comes with that expansion. EMP Mines are very powerful. Later in the game when the wave sizes get big they're uhmazing!

Your AIP is 442 which is very high even on 7difficulty. 442 would be ok on 7diff if you were about to attack the AIs' home planets. But 442 at this point makes life very hard. Especially when you haven't scouted much yet. If you don't have access to Spirecraft Scouts I recommend unlocking MarkII scouts after capturing 1 or 2 planets and MarkIII Scouts when you feel like you need them. I also recommend turning Spirecraft to Easy so you will have access to Spirecraft Scouts without having to deal with the Exos.

Also you have captured all planets behind the choke point. Capturing all planets in an x area will just unnecessarily increase the AIP. Only capture and hold (you can capture and abandon a distant Advanced Research Station or Golem for example) the planets you really need.

I also checked your controls (CTRLS in the bottom bar thing).
Here are my controls. I recommend you try these and change things is/when you want to.

[Mánagarmr]

I'm curious, shouldn't it be possible to check a log as to what increased the AIP that much? The only things I know of that do that are Human Rebellions and Zenith Miners. (Aside from blowing up AI home stations)

[keith.lamothe]

I'm curious, shouldn't it be possible to check a log as to what increased the AIP that much? The only things I know of that do that are Human Rebellions and Zenith Miners.

It shows up in the chat log, but that doesn't persist in savegames.

[Hearteater]

Ok, so you do have Captive Human Settlements on.  That's probably the 100 AIP.  There should be a warning in the top left corner of the screen that doesn't go away that gives a countdown until the Settlement is decloaked.  Once that happens, the AI will destroy the Settlement and you'll eat a 100 AIP penalty.  If you have a save before that happens and you can reach the system with the Settlement, you want to rush it.  You can either: 1) destroy the Captive Human Settlement and take a 15 AIP hit, or 2) destroy the AI Command Station and build your own Command Station, taking a 25+ AIP hit with a potential 100 AIP later if the CHS gets killed.  #2 is harder to do but you do get some resources for protecting the CHS and it can also make the extremely strong Resistance Fighters which are immune to Gravity effects, which would be very nice for this game.

Holy cow, build Starships!!!  I recommend making a second Starship Constructor.  Set one to build Raid Starships continuously and the other to build one each of Plasma Starship, Flagship and Bomber Starship continuously.

A note on Gravity Turrets.  Because you are facing a Grav Driller, if you are able to capture one with the Grav Drill intact and make that your choke point, that's better than Gravity Turrets and you can get away without unlocking them.  But they are a good unlock for defending any system without a Grav Drill.

Scouting is definitely a critical priority, and getting Scout IIs unlocked will be very pretty much mandatory.

[Kahuna]

I'm curious, shouldn't it be possible to check a log as to what increased the AIP that much? The only things I know of that do that are Human Rebellions and Zenith Miners. (Aside from blowing up AI home stations)

I don't think Zenith Miners increase AIP. Or do they?

[Diazo]

Okay, Kahuna did not post a galaxy map but I have two comments.

First: You do have the Human Colony Rebellions minor faction enabled at intensity 1.

Looking at your AIP it looks like two of these rebellions have happened that did not get saved.

You should get, in the top left of the screen where the wave warning are, a "Rebelling Human Colony in {system} will lose invisibility in 2:00:00" with the 2:00:00 being a 2 hour countdown until they lose invisibility and become valid targets for the AI.

You then have 2 hours to find that system and capture it to save the Rebel Colony. When you do you can build a couple of very nice ship types at the Rebel Colony.

However, when destroyed the rebel colonies cause the AIP to increase by 100 which is painful. (There was talk a month ago about reducing the AIP cost on this structure, did anything every happen on that?)


The second thing is threat, you have over 3,000 AI ships lose and ready to attack you. AI ships that are lose on threat have orders to "attack the player when not horribly outgunned".

You need to clean some of that threat up by hunting it down and killing it then you should be able to take your fleet out on the attack because that threat will not attack your systems as soon as your fleet leaves.

To track down threat, go to the galaxy map and change the filter to "Threat" (hotkey T), the numbers in yellow will show how many AI ships in that system are lose as threat. (Requires a scout in the system).

Most of those 3,000 ships should be sitting on the wormholes that connect to your worlds waiting for their chance to attack, you can attack them back first and destroy them to reduce threat.

I'll take a look at your save myself tonight if I get time but I won't be home until late.

D.

edit: Zenith Miners (which are not enabled) do not directly increase AIP, rather they increase AIP by destroying the structures in the system they destroy. So minimum 20 AIP for the command station and warp gate.

edit the 2nd: He's up against 2 grav drillers, I don't think he's run into any Captive Human Settlements, but the Human Colony Rebellions are enabled.

[Hearteater]

Whoops, got the Human Colony Rebellions confused with Captive Humans (again...I always mix them up).  Diazo's info on them is correct.  Sadly you just have to rescue them, you can't destroy them for less AIP.

[jadedamion]

Starships i havent really messed with because in one of my other games.... this was MONTHS ago a patch or 3 befor now... anyways they always seemed to get destroyed way to easy late game however the riot ship wasnt custom last time i played either i REALLY liked that.
the mark 1 big guns i didn't unlock early game because of power issues and now late game because i'm stuck cant seem to get out to gather knowledge
Ancient Shadows expansion? lol didn't even know there was another expansion lol ill have to pick it up.. i've never really been the best at this game IE the computer 6+ will beat me or make me give up every time but i ALWAYS come back to it i cant get enough of the challenge
about capping all the systems behind my choke point i think that might be my biggest problem that and having the human settlements on and not realizing it lol ALOT of them was just space and i always forget that i can get knowledge anywhere i have supplie so only need like every other system
ok thanks alot for all the help i might reroll this seed and give it another run trying some of the new settings and not capping so much?? hey wait if i leave command stations behind my line cant they send reinforcments there? yea i knoticed that i didn't realise if you click it it puts 4 points into it lol so when they go thats my 100 AIP

[Mánagarmr]

I'm curious, shouldn't it be possible to check a log as to what increased the AIP that much? The only things I know of that do that are Human Rebellions and Zenith Miners. (Aside from blowing up AI home stations)

I don't think Zenith Miners increase AIP. Or do they?

That might've changed when they made them three separate ships rather than one huge one. But "back then" they did +100 AIP on planet destruction.