Arcen Games
General Category => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: Chaosed0 on June 10, 2013, 10:30:39 pm
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Hey guys,
Been a while since I played AI war; I've only ever won one game, against 6/6 AIs. I've started a new game; It seems to be going ok, but I'm now getting held up on what used to be trivial - guard posts.
I used to just deal with these with raid starships. I tried that, but now, it seems that they get destroyed very easily by just one guard post! In addition, it seems like every guard post now counters the armor of base ship types that counter those guard posts' armor types (e.g. a heavy-armor guard post will counter polycrystal). I've tried using transports, but that does not help very much. I've also tried soft-countering the guard posts by sending ships that doesn't do well against the guard post's armor, but also don't get countered by the guard post. This resulted in losing less ships, but not that many less. I ended up just taking fleets and mobbing the guard posts down.
However, now I'm completely stuck on an AI eye planet; I cannot take the posts down with even bomber starships, because they get destroyed too quickly, and I can't take a fleet because of the AI eye. I've been slowly grinding the planet down, but it's taking so, so long that I may just restart and see if I can do better. Now, this may simply be because my fleet's not strong enough yet - I've only unlocked mark II of each of the ships I have (I have, in addition to the base types, autocannon minipod, electric shuttle and space tank) - but really, this just seems ridiculous. I've taken 7 planets, and am starting to try to focus on priority targets, but I can't take any of them since all of them have AI eyes on them.
I feel like I'm missing something, since there's no other posts on this topic. Can anyone give some hints? The save's attached, if it helps.
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Hey guys,
Been a while since I played AI war; I've only ever won one game, against 6/6 AIs. I've started a new game; It seems to be going ok, but I'm now getting held up on what used to be trivial - guard posts.
I used to just deal with these with raid starships. I tried that, but now, it seems that they get destroyed very easily by just one guard post! In addition, it seems like every guard post now counters the armor of base ship types that counter those guard posts' armor types (e.g. a heavy-armor guard post will counter polycrystal). I've tried using transports, but that does not help very much. I've also tried soft-countering the guard posts by sending ships that doesn't do well against the guard post's armor, but also don't get countered by the guard post. This resulted in losing less ships, but not that many less. I ended up just taking fleets and mobbing the guard posts down.
However, now I'm completely stuck on an AI eye planet; I cannot take the posts down with even bomber starships, because they get destroyed too quickly, and I can't take a fleet because of the AI eye. I've been slowly grinding the planet down, but it's taking so, so long that I may just restart and see if I can do better. Now, this may simply be because my fleet's not strong enough yet - I've only unlocked mark II of each of the ships I have (I have, in addition to the base types, autocannon minipod, electric shuttle and space tank) - but really, this just seems ridiculous. I've taken 7 planets, and am starting to try to focus on priority targets, but I can't take any of them since all of them have AI eyes on them.
I feel like I'm missing something, since there's no other posts on this topic. Can anyone give some hints? The save's attached, if it helps.
Yes, guard posts did get much harder. They still are rather fragile compared to a same marked cap of fleet ships, but now have about comparable offensive strength.
Basically, they now make it such that planet mark now matters and misc. obstacles on the planet now matter much more. ;)
Because of this though, it may be worthwhile readdressing the whole Mk. IV planets next to the homeworld thing... (yea, this point doesn't have any connection to the OP, but it crossed my mind)
Also, I wonder if the AI eyes should be changed to if only 25% of the posts (rounded down) remain, them the AI eye will die.
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Guard Posts shouldn't be countering their triangle counters, though. Are you using the very latest version?
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First, make sure that you are on the latest version. Guard posts should not counter the hulls that they're weak against. That was going on for a very short period, but was solved very quickly.
Secondly, yes, guard posts did get quite the buff, so you can't just stomp them with raids or a generic fleet ball without losses anymore. You CAN do some raid starship stomping, but you'll need some higher mark raid starships for that.
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Yeah, I find Raid Starships can't raid most guard posts effectively now. Higher mark ones can raid missile posts, due to being missile immune. But for the most part you'll need more stuff.
Personally on 7/7, I like to use a mix of Starships for dealing with eyes. Flagships are great because they boost the power of everything else. Riot's help keep enemy fleetships at bay and offer shields (the mk II's tazer is also quite handy). Mix in some bomber ships and whatever else you have, and you can deal a lot of damage. If the enemy planet has a lot of ships you can bring Leech Starships to reclaim a few of them and give the enemy more targets. Plasma Sieges are really slow (and using group move thus slow everything else down), but can be good if you need to crack shields because of the extra damage. I tend to avoid bringing Enclave Starships on these raids because the drones seem to count as ships for eye purposes, but they're great the rest of the time. You could bring Enclaves initially to thin out the enemy fleetships on the planet, then send them back through the wormhole.
If you've got Vengeance of the Machine installed, play around with Protector Starships. They're hilariously awesome at this task, particularly if you unlock mk II or higher. Those do basically no damage of their own but instead block incoming attacks, and they can totally nullify guard post offense if set up with the appropriate modules. I actually shut down the attacks of a Fortress III with these yesterday. :D
Another trick is to turn Fallen Spire on, and only do it far enough to get the Refugee Outpost. That has no long term consequences on the game, but the four Spire Frigates you get have a photon lance main gun that does big DPS to stationary targets like guard posts. (Going any further than that with Fallen Spire gets you much stronger ships, but the AI reacts violently.)
edit - It'd also be worth it to unlock the Zenith and Spire Starships. They're available on the Starship tab. Mark I is just 500 knowledge each, and they'll add significant firepower to a small starship strike force for dealing with eyes.
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Yep guard posts won this poll (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12549.0.html) and the rest is history.
Since then I've adjusted them so that they don't counter their triangle counter, and so that they generally seed in much lower numbers on the low/moderate difficulties. But it sounds like you may be working with a version that fell between the buffs and those amendments. In other words, you're in the twilight zone ;)
The new posts... well, they hurt, no mistake. But that's what the poll said to do, more or less :)
They're actually not too awful hard to deal with. I know Protector Starships and Space Planes both hard-counter guard posts in many circumstances, and there are a lot of other solutions to deal with them that are more generally applicable (if less "no losses" effective).
Guardians also hurt a lot harder nowadays, too, btw. Just so you're warned ;)
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You're welcome >D
Basically, when people look back through the history of AI War, I want them to think:
who was this "Faulty Logic" guy, and why must he make my life so miserable?
Guard posts were one of the victories in that regard.
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You're welcome >D
Basically, when people look back through the history of AI War, I want them to think:
who was this "Faulty Logic" guy, and why must he make my life so miserable?
Guard posts were one of the victories in that regard.
With friendsplayers like these, who needs enemiesDMs? ;)
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Well, I don't have the ability to change the game myself (at least, for copies that aren't mine), so I do need you (the DM) in that regard.
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super powered guard posts are great... except when covered by mk 3 FFs.
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super powered guard posts are great... except especially when covered by mk 3 FFs on an eye planet, next to two raid engines.
Fixed that for you.
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But Raid Engines don't make it harder, they just make you use more warhea... oh.
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Now I see Faulty Logic's logic!
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If circumstances (eyes + very nasty patrol) make fleet tactics impractical, Cloaker starships in combination with transports or stand down mode can be used to get your combat starships within attack range before agitating the patrol or system defense forces and allow you to hide before everything reaches your position.
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Thanks for the info guys. I updated with the latest beta updates and the posts no longer counter their counters, making it a lot less grindy.
Indeed, a mixed fleet of starships & cloakers, along with the occasional transport full of bombers/fighters, will take the guard posts down fairly handily. However, it did still take me nearly an hour and a half to bring down a single mark IV planet with an eye. Either way, at least I know it's doable now.
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Is it blasphemy to say that I personally wouldn't mind guard posts being re-nerfed just a little bit (say DPS down by 20-25%)?
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I think a slight additional nerf is called for. 20%-25% less DPS does seem about right.
Also, with Mk. IV posts being so scary now, should Mk. IV planets now be disallowed from spawning next to the homeworld?
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I recently got back into this game after a long hiatus, and the new guard posts are awesome. I managed to get a cap of fighters minced by throwing them at the wrong sort of post - and again by letting my Vorticular Cutlass swarm drift a little too close to an MRLS post - and now I'm playing much more cautiously than I used to.
Please don't nerf the guard posts!