Cloaking guardians: making cloaking more standard in AI arsenal

[Shrugging Khan]

Semi-Related: It seems to me that most high-level special thingies unlock at AI level 8. Is there anything that only appears on even higher levels?

[keith.lamothe]

Semi-Related: It seems to me that most high-level special thingies unlock at AI level 8. Is there anything that only appears on even higher levels?

I don't think so.  And I don't think we'd want to "gate" anything all that interesting behind anything more punishing than 8, since relatively few players would get to see it

[Wanderer]

Tachyon detection I'd agree should not become mandatory - and a good way to make it more "common" without requiring stealth detection is to prevent the *cause* of the cloaking from being cloaked itself (SC1-Arbiters being an archetype). Therefore, an example scheme would be to use a triangle ship to take down this "cause" more intelligently than "Select fleet ball -> attack-move".

I like this idea better than an all-out cloaker.  It might even be a decent alternative for a carrier type. Even a cloaking starship variant for the AI would be alright, since it's such a limited number of ships.  What I don't want is EVERY game to be an anti-cloak war.  I like the fact that I usually don't have to worry about cloaked raiders (I play primarily schizo waves) unless the AI actually unlocked cloakers.  The idea behind cloakers seems to be that even though they can bypass the unprepared lines, they don't have inane firepower and hp so when you DO catch them they die without being utterly destructive.  This is incredibly important when you didn't realize you had another 200 AIP bump happen and they have a new ship on the loose.

Grav Turrets are already an automatic unlock.  I don't want to see Tachyons end up the same way, primarily because the caps are pretty low on Tachyons.

[Martyn van Buren]

I gotta say, the stealth golem idea sounds pretty interesting for an occasional challenge. Or maybe a stealth module for advanced hybrids?

[Shrugging Khan]

I don't think so.  And I don't think we'd want to "gate" anything all that interesting behind anything more punishing than 8, since relatively few players would get to see it

Good thinking. I always play and never win on 8 because I want to see it all in every single game; if you put in anything at even higher levels, I'll probably never beat the game

[NickAragua]

I don't really agree with the statement that

I agree, the AI needs more cloaking, specifically on the defense really

. 

The AI uses cloaking quite enough, thank you. In my current game, the AI has space planes, etherjets and a planet with a planetary cloaker. I'm seriously considering teching up to logistics stations MK III so I don't have to keep moving my limited number of decloakers around trying to find the damn space planes and etherjets hanging out around my systems.

When the space planes and etherjets aren't hanging out in my systems, they are piling up in ludicrous amounts in bordering enemy systems, to the point where I have to bring a decloaker along with every attack to reduce the number of cloaked jackasses that escape into my systems when I warp my fleet in.

On defense, the AI has plenty of Stealth Guard Posts which require me to bring tachyon units into hostile territory (where they die very quickly unless I clear a path for them or use a transport). It's even better when they're keeping an AI Eye alive and have a fortress camped out next to them. Additionally, there is a planet with a Planetary Cloaker - I expect to lose a whole bunch of ships getting to that one, since I have no idea what's in the way.

So, I'd put my vote against additional AI cloaking units. They wouldn't add any extra challenge, except that to my patience as I have to pull my fleet back and wait for another batch of decloakers to get rebuilt because all four of them got killed by a stiff space-breeze.

BTW, any chance the decloakers can show up in the magnifying glass interface so I can find where they are?

[Hearteater]

Try some of these out, see if they help any:

Stealth Guard Posts - They are located on resource nodes.  Find any "unoccupied" node and fly over to it.  The Stealth Guard Post will attack, lose Cloaking, and you'll kill it.  No Tachyon needed.  I've yet to need any Tachyon units to clear these out.

Space Planes - Tachyon Emitter at warp point, Gravity Turret optional, one Sniper Turret.  None will leak through, the Sniper Turret one-shots them (ignoring their Radar Dampening).

Ether Jets - Add 1 Lightning Turret to the above.  This will wreck up to 40 Ether Jets at once, in a single shot (since they work like Electric Shuttles now).

[Shrugging Khan]

After an extended K-Raid (In which I tested my available defences, just for fun and SCIENCE!), I just had 450 SSB mkII hanging around a system. Cloaked. Not attacking.

So I sent in a bunch of Scout Starships and gave them move orders all over the place. They discovered about 200 SSBs around the AI command station, which quickly engaged the Dyson Gatlings running around the system and, after a suspenseful battle that really demonstrated the powers of both SSB and DG, ended up dead very. In the end, some 250 SSbs remained cloaked and inactive...where I left them. I wonder when they'll awake, to resume their deadly bout with the Gatlings or perhaps to bring DOOOOM! upon my eastern flank?

[PokerChen]

SSBs are the main reason one would invest in using de-cloakers. I don't know if it's just me, but they and some other ships seem to have a higher chance of being unlocked - although it is more likely that I'm not playing enough games.