Author Topic: Am I doing this right?  (Read 7254 times)

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2015, 12:28:06 pm »
I usually put my first city on the primary choke, and then hold that for the rest of the game. In the game I uploaded, I eventually created an outer choke, after clearing out the central cluster.

But, anyway, I think I sensible plan is this:
  • Fortify the choke normally -- turrets and fortresses out of the glass, Mk3 milcom under glass, flak and lightning turrets probably under glass, because they are at 3/4 power under forcefields rather than 1/4.
  • Build the hub in about a minute using a huge pile of engineers
  • Build the city structures with only the shield pre-queued
  • Once several of the city shields are up, remove the freestanding shields, and tell the fortresses to move to under the forcefield
  • Start building the sniper modules now
  • Start scrapping and rebuilding the turrets under the city shields

Sounds like a plan. I'll probably use excess forcefields (Because I gotta get them anyway for the best spire shields to be researched) To defend the gaps that they will inevitably make.

Hey! Don't make long topics in less than one day while I'm away!  :P

Well, it's a bit late, but: welcome. Radiant Phoenix has already handled most of your questions, I feel I'll be of no help here.

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Have been casually playing on difficulty 6 lately (I know, people say the game sucks below 7, but I'm a very casual video-game player, and the AI gives me a good ass kicking as-is, so I think I'm on my level)
Y'know, I was just out of silver from Star Craft II (being pissed by this game, on the long run) and read "take difficulty 7 if you're a good RTS player". I answer "sure I'm a not-so-bad RTS player; bring it on!"
...
How foolish I was. I needed to sit on my pride and downgrade the difficulty to 5 to have my first win. Then I understood the game and slowly climbed back (I'm now comfortable on 7/7 and challenged at 8/8). So don't be shy about the difficulty. If you feel challenged, then this is your level, no matter the number or the other players.


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I normally have 1 AI with Hybrid 5, Adv Hybrid 1, and the other Astrotrain 5. I also use almost all the different minor factions
:o
Quite impressive for a first game. Try some vanilla game, one day. You know, spire and golems are like a drug. I had a hard time winning a 7/7 game without golems until I re-learned how to assault a homeworld. We have a player here on the forum (Red.Queen, you'll meet him* sooner or latter) who set auto-AIP to 1 per 5 minutes (instead of 1 per 30 minutes) for his* first game and now can't play with lower setup. ^^

* or "her", I realized I don't know.

TL;DR: Welcome!

Thanks ^_^

Hah, my first game was not as impressive, but I really love the diversity that the minor factions add ("Ok, when I enter this planet, are the murauders going to assault me? Are allies gunna come? Will I finally find that damn dyson sphere? Is that Nomad gunna screw over my assault?")

That guy with the 1 progress every 5 minutes is insane yo o_o I play normally for the long game in RTS (Turtle up, use the strongest defense I can, and reserve my offensive for when the dust settles, yknow?) I'd be in MK 3 by the time I even got myself a bottleneck set up.
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2015, 02:53:22 pm »
You might want to check out this: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17412.0.html
This is a good example of a seemingly lost game that got turned around with the right help.

Don't give up just because you think you will loose. The game has some really hard moments and soemtimes it might be better to close the game for a while and enjoy somethign different. But giving up an entire save game might not be wise.
I thought the same and wanted to give up but people (mostly Pumpkin) helped me to get back on my feet and achieve a victory.
Sometimes you have just to shift your defenses to defend a nasty attack or prpeare for an incoming exo force.

You might want to check out Kahunas Guide, especially the part about turret placement (if you havent's already). This was really useful for me and helped me improve my perfomance like 100%!
Also I would deactivate all the nasty stuff that you have of you are not already comfortable with the normal stuff. Especially Astro trains, everyone hates them, even 10/10 players avoid them very often.

And save. A lot. Saving is, along with the pause button, your most precious friend. If you screw up you can go some steps back, rethink them and maybe you will succeed. This helped me a lot in the game, I always have TONS of save games so I am prepared if something goes out of control. If you prepare for a planet attack, save. If you captured a planet, save. If a wave is announced, save. If the AI sneezes, save like there is no tomorrow.

I would also deactivate alt champion nemesis. They are really annoying and painful since they can slip too easily through your defenses (they are tractor immune, have infinite engine health and will head directly at your home command station. They are really hard to stop and they are strong enough to one-shot your station. You've been warned). I played with normal champion progress and whenever I lost this was 80% of the time because of those guys.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2015, 03:19:19 pm »
You might want to check out this: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17412.0.html
This is a good example of a seemingly lost game that got turned around with the right help.

Don't give up just because you think you will loose. The game has some really hard moments and soemtimes it might be better to close the game for a while and enjoy somethign different. But giving up an entire save game might not be wise.
I thought the same and wanted to give up but people (mostly Pumpkin) helped me to get back on my feet and achieve a victory.
Sometimes you have just to shift your defenses to defend a nasty attack or prpeare for an incoming exo force.

You might want to check out Kahunas Guide, especially the part about turret placement (if you havent's already). This was really useful for me and helped me improve my perfomance like 100%!
Also I would deactivate all the nasty stuff that you have of you are not already comfortable with the normal stuff. Especially Astro trains, everyone hates them, even 10/10 players avoid them very often.

And save. A lot. Saving is, along with the pause button, your most precious friend. If you screw up you can go some steps back, rethink them and maybe you will succeed. This helped me a lot in the game, I always have TONS of save games so I am prepared if something goes out of control. If you prepare for a planet attack, save. If you captured a planet, save. If a wave is announced, save. If the AI sneezes, save like there is no tomorrow.

I would also deactivate alt champion nemesis. They are really annoying and painful since they can slip too easily through your defenses (they are tractor immune, have infinite engine health and will head directly at your home command station. They are really hard to stop and they are strong enough to one-shot your station. You've been warned). I played with normal champion progress and whenever I lost this was 80% of the time because of those guys.

I gave up more because I did this; http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=448797364
Note all the neutral planets...  I stupidly didn't save before I did that too, so I was stuck with a shitload of AIP....

and I use black hole machines/tacheon stuff to avoid sneaks.

I dont mind astro trains, they're not too hard to reroute, and my defenses cream the cargo ones. Hybrids just feel like a balancing unit to my champion and spire spam.

I dunno, I'm just a huge variety nut I guess.
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2015, 05:18:59 pm »
I use the planetary tachyon coverage of Military Command Station Mark IIIs to stop stealth ships.  ;)

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2015, 05:24:51 pm »
Wow, that's a lot of AI Progress.
If you want the "capture x planets" achievments you do this on 1/1. Otherwise the AI will get really nasty.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2015, 05:29:15 pm »
Can't you also do it after you've let the Spire exo-fleet stomp the AI flat?

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 05:35:50 pm »
Can't you also do it after you've let the Spire exo-fleet stomp the AI flat?

I already won that way, and it crapped out my game because of my CPU not being able to use multicore. Rendered the aftergame unplayable x_x
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 06:45:56 pm »
You can scaledown the perfomace profile of the game (but I don't remember anymore where).

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 06:51:32 pm »
You can scaledown the perfomace profile of the game (but I don't remember anymore where).
[STATS]

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 07:17:04 pm »
You can scaledown the perfomace profile of the game (but I don't remember anymore where).

that's the thing, it was already scaled down to the lowest. AI war won't use my entire CPU.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 07:47:25 pm »
Forget about difficulty. You can turn that down but then turn on some of the optional goodies, and the game gets harder really quickly. Even folks that play on the harder levels, the goodies can change things to a loss really quickly.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 07:48:56 pm by Cyborg »
Kahuna strategy guide:
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13369.0.html

Suggestions, bugs? Don't be lazy, give back:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/

Planetcracker. Believe it.

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Offline gia

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2015, 04:40:13 am »
So, I've owned the game for a while, and Have been casually playing on difficulty 6 lately (I know, people say the game sucks below 7, but I'm a very casual video-game player, and the AI gives me a good ass kicking as-is, so I think I'm on my level). I heavily rely on spire ships (w rails, highest I can stick in each slot) and my champion(s, set as Spire with ion/rail spam w 3 shields) as my offensive fleet, and use bottlenecks  (Station parked at wormhole defended by forcefields and turret spam) and my remaining fleet to defend while I attack the AI/obtain objectives.

I normally have 1 AI with Hybrid 5, Adv Hybrid 1, and the other Astrotrain 5. I also use almost all the different minor factions (I'm still experimenting, but I always have the traders, fallen spire, spire civillians, golems(Botnet too) on easy, Human murauders, human resistance, dyson sphere, nomad planets (With only 1 nomad), Exodian blade (Still have not rescued it...), rocket corps, roaming enclaves (10), dark spire (4-6), and Easy spirecraft.) I also use alt chap progress (10) and Nemesis (3) If it wasn't obvious, I have all of the current expansions. Only ship type I have not enabled is the swallowers, because I'm unsure of them.

My strategy works pretty well until the late-game when I hit AI tier 3... and then hell breaks loose when the AI sends forces after forces after forces....

I'm dying to trigger a showdown and use the blade to help me kill the motherships that spawn (and while they're distracted, use the nomad beacon to turn one of their homes to pulp after I get the achievement), an use the 'invincible' spire fleet of mine to eliminate the remaining forces. (I wanna get that 120 planet control achievement badly....)

For my defensive, I use lots of turret spam at the wormhole/military base under forcefields (Millitary base gives 100% attack under forcefields according to in-game text), and area mines using the line placed between the wormhole and my station, using black hole machines to protect from infiltrators.

I position my military ship construction hub at an even distance between all of my bottlenecks (Which normally end up being two) for easy deployment. My special forces hub (Golem, spire, and other supership parking) is always one hop from it, and my scouting prduction facilities are also one hop out.

I have played about 150 hours, and only won once (2 lvl 5 coward/chivalric AI using the alternate Spire victory.) and have played multiple games with different settings. Most end up with me in a deadlock unable to go far without getting killed, or I overextend myself trying to claim all of the core shield generators or showdown devices and die from the AI getting so pissed off they send hell itself to floor me.

I'm hoping to learn some general tips, not to become hardcore, but just so I can avoid my doom and actually experience everything I can in the game ^^; Thank you for taking the time to read this :)

for 120 planet play on any difficulty you like but turn off most things that will annoy you and turn on civilian leaders, make it your priority to rescue them until you are at a net positive AIP per hour, then just set the game to super speed (++++++) and capture planets only when you got enough aip reduction to pay for it. Should take a while but you'll be done eventually and with very low AIP.

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2015, 08:08:32 am »
for 120 planet play on any difficulty you like but turn off most things that will annoy you and turn on civilian leaders, make it your priority to rescue them until you are at a net positive AIP per hour, then just set the game to super speed (++++++) and capture planets only when you got enough aip reduction to pay for it. Should take a while but you'll be done eventually and with very low AIP.

There's a few things wrong (To me at least) with that strategy

A; It's kinda boring waiting around for AIP to lower forever
B; It feels kinda cheap to use it in that way, and not actively go out looking for data centers or co-processors and stuff.
C; The only faction I've really found annoying so far is the dark spire, but I like it because it keeps me on my toes about base defense because now nothing is safe in my base.

Just my thoughts.
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.

Offline Chris_Stalis

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2015, 12:09:56 pm »
Just some general notes:

1) Generally, Dyson sphere doesn't need defenses. The power could probably be best spent elsewhere.
2) Never put turrets or fortresses under human FFs. The drop in DPS kills any surviability payoff you might be looking for. Do, however, put engies and rebuilders under a FF near the turrets. Turrets can be rebuilt during a furball, and these little guys will happily try to keep rebuilding as many as possible.
3) Spire cities CAN be placed under human FFs (I do it all the time), but you'll probably need to micro the exo-waves just a bit. I usually have to manually target siege ships to clear them out, then let the autotargetting sort out most of the rest. You'll also need to vary the weapon loadout. I can offer some additional pointers if you're interested.
4) If the AI is swarming you with carriers, build an extra fortress or two on mission critical planets that aren't behind a chokepoint (higher the mark you can afford in metal and research, the better)
5) Don't go crazy trying to craft chokepoints on the galaxy map.

In regards to #5 - your preferred map style gives you fairly natural chokepoints, but you also have to take a lot of territory to establish them. You should generally be done taking planets about half way through Mk II AIP, so if you're only building up your empire to that point, it will be hard to progress further. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult. You may want to consider trying a more archipeligo strategy in the pocketed areas and make your primary defense be your turrets.

Speaking of turrets, if you use those as your primary defense, try to keep the turrets upgraded to AIP Tech Level + 1 (so level 2 turrets at game start, level 3 when AIP crosses to tech level 2, etc). This is because, in addition to doing less damage in general, lower mark units get a penalty to damage when firing at higher mark units, and the higher mark units get a damage bonus when firing back at the lower mark units. Keeping turrets upgraded based on AI tech level helps to mitigate this general problem.

Note that on chokepoints, I'd still build the obsolete turrets if you have the spare power. The auto targeting tries to maximize damage, and the damage bonus against low marks is very juicy to it. This makes them an excellent meat shield to soak up a couple stray shots with. On non-chokepoints, I'd only build them if it was a highly critical system for you (like an advanced factory system).

Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Am I doing this right?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2015, 12:29:31 pm »
Just some general notes:

1) Generally, Dyson sphere doesn't need defenses. The power could probably be best spent elsewhere.
2) Never put turrets or fortresses under human FFs. The drop in DPS kills any surviability payoff you might be looking for. Do, however, put engies and rebuilders under a FF near the turrets. Turrets can be rebuilt during a furball, and these little guys will happily try to keep rebuilding as many as possible.
3) Spire cities CAN be placed under human FFs (I do it all the time), but you'll probably need to micro the exo-waves just a bit. I usually have to manually target siege ships to clear them out, then let the autotargetting sort out most of the rest. You'll also need to vary the weapon loadout. I can offer some additional pointers if you're interested.
4) If the AI is swarming you with carriers, build an extra fortress or two on mission critical planets that aren't behind a chokepoint (higher the mark you can afford in metal and research, the better)
5) Don't go crazy trying to craft chokepoints on the galaxy map.

In regards to #5 - your preferred map style gives you fairly natural chokepoints, but you also have to take a lot of territory to establish them. You should generally be done taking planets about half way through Mk II AIP, so if you're only building up your empire to that point, it will be hard to progress further. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult. You may want to consider trying a more archipeligo strategy in the pocketed areas and make your primary defense be your turrets.

Speaking of turrets, if you use those as your primary defense, try to keep the turrets upgraded to AIP Tech Level + 1 (so level 2 turrets at game start, level 3 when AIP crosses to tech level 2, etc). This is because, in addition to doing less damage in general, lower mark units get a penalty to damage when firing at higher mark units, and the higher mark units get a damage bonus when firing back at the lower mark units. Keeping turrets upgraded based on AI tech level helps to mitigate this general problem.

Note that on chokepoints, I'd still build the obsolete turrets if you have the spare power. The auto targeting tries to maximize damage, and the damage bonus against low marks is very juicy to it. This makes them an excellent meat shield to soak up a couple stray shots with. On non-chokepoints, I'd only build them if it was a highly critical system for you (like an advanced factory system).

for 1, I've had some machine built on an AI planet that antagonized the sphere, and sent tons of gatlings at me, eventually forcing me into a loss... Don't plan on having that happen again...

2 and 3 I've been discussing, and I found that using just spire shields (the high mark ones) with their almost 4mil (x 6 structures) absorption is sufficient enough. Plus, I can put my turrets under them and they fire at max power. (or so I've been told. They seem to be much more efficient now)

not sure about 4. I keep a taskforce of Spirecraft at a central location in case something decides to try and hop over the (*Cough* invincible *Cough*) Choke point. Which can help me defend.

as for 5, why not? with this map style I can EASILY set up two-4 (Depending on positioning) choke points that can brick wall all the enemy forces that try to visit.

As for your note on 5, that's where Spirecraft comes in handy. I set up small choke points over time (Maybe grabbing a wormhole device if the trader passes by) and  slowly expand towards the easiest to establish choke point and set a spire city there. Once that's done, I move to the next choke point, having my spire fleet cleave the way, and using spirecraft as "House cleaning" to remove any sticky pests hiding.

Good to know with the turrets. I always buy up to Mark 3, but I didn't realize that Lower tier attacking higher tier penalty didn't only apply to reclaimer ships....

 I rarely ever have energy problems (When I do, it's because I let the dark spire get out of hand) and normally have 3-6 million leftover even after I've capped out Spirecraft, fallen spire, and my normal ships. so for me, power is my least concern.

I'll be posting pictures of my new campaign later tonight when I'm on my gaming comp.
Just that guy who hides behind walls of death hoping that they stay up.