Alerting core worlds

[Martyn van Buren]

So I asked a similar question a few months ago, but I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on how bad it is to alert a core world and what's worth it to do so.  I've been playing small maps recently, so I wind up with worlds with things like three fabricators, a golem, and a zenith power gen.  I got myself in a sticky situation last time taking one without noticing it bordered the core, so now I'm scouting much more heavily (a couple of Mk I spire scouts basically covers a 30-planet map).  I figure on a map this size I'm bound to doing it a fair bit, so I guess my plan is to figure out where both are early and plan a route in such that one won't be on alert for each core and I can get the best of the various treasures bordering the AI cores.  Equally, with a small map I'm going to be at the AI's door in a very short time and could potentially just steamroller over it if I can strike fast and with golems -- in my last game, I had an armored golem ready and was able to fully neuter the first core world I met pretty easily.  So in general, I'm curious to hear what people think --- how much does it "cost" to put a core world on alert?

[Wanderer]

If you don't neuter a core world before putting it on alert, you stand a very good chance of losing the game or ending up in a stalemate when you go after the AI Homeworld.

I will occassionally put them on alert, but it's a lot of work to backwash the system's defenses, get in there, neuter everything but the Cmd station, live with the fact that while you're doing that the HOMEWORLD is on alert, and then be able to take the system I wanted.

Usually not worth it.  It would have to be game breaking in that particular scenario to have me do it.  BotNet golem might get me there.

[HellishFiend]

In my opinion it is almost never worth it to alert a core world before you are ready to deal with the home world behind it. Because you alerted it too soon, the sheer losses you will take by having to deal with hundreds upon hundreds of extra core ships later in the game  could, at best, offset whatever you gained by alerting the world. At worst, it could cost you the game. Twice I have lost or given up on games by having alerting core worlds early on and being unprepared for the consequences.

If you are playing a low AIP game, alerting a core world too soon will screw you over because your low-AIP technology and fleet with be no match for hundreds or even a thousand+ core units.

If you are playing a high AIP game, alerting a core world too soon will screw you over because the AI's high-AIP reinforcements could balloon the core world to staggering numbers of core ships that could result in deadly and even fatal carrier attacks and CPAs.

I am sure there are some situations where alerting a core world "early" wont result in a loss and could even be worth it, but you would have to look at it in terms of "how am I worse off by leaving the core world alone?" Usually the answer is, you are not worse off by staying away from it.

[dotjd]

Most of the scenarios for which I would take a core-adjacent world involve immediately proceeding to attack the homeworld regardless.  Golems?  Cool, you got the last firepower boost you needed to attack the homeworld (unless it's a botnet, which instead you immediately send back to defend your planets while you take every other ship you own and... attack the homeworld).  All of the remaining core shield gens are on core-adjacent planets?  Cool, as soon as you bring them down you can... attack the homeworld.  Only remaining adv. factory on the map?  Cool, build 20 engineers, pump out a fleet, and... attack the homeworld.

It isn't necessarily an auto-loss, but I am having a really hard time conceiving of a situation where alerting a core world early is actually optimal.  Wouldn't do it for a Z power gen and a couple fabs, in any case.

[Martyn van Buren]

Thanks!  That said, in my previous game I had one world bordering the core with an advanced factory, 3 fabs, a ARS, and a black widow golem --- but it was on the wrong side of the homeworld and I never finished that game.  Small galaxies are kinda ridiculous in a fun way.

[Wanderer]

It isn't necessarily an auto-loss, but I am having a really hard time conceiving of a situation where alerting a core world early is actually optimal.  Wouldn't do it for a Z power gen and a couple fabs, in any case.

I'm actually staring at one that I'm debating how to deal with in my ramp up difficulty game.  I've got ARS's bracketing a core world.  If I take either of them, I alert it.  I'm going to have to nerf it to get my two bonus ships and deal with the A-Class CSGs.  We'll see how that turns out... 

[keith.lamothe]

Piles of mkV ships from extended alerting?  I think they're responsible for some of the clouds of vapor trailing behind that 480M-dps photon lance...

[HellishFiend]

Piles of mkV ships from extended alerting?  I think they're responsible for some of the clouds of vapor trailing behind that 480M-dps photon lance...

Funny you mention that Keith. No less than a few minutes ago, in the game I'm playing, my 4th city shard just spawned on a planet adjacent to a core world. Better keep those photon lances hot. 

[zoutzakje]

I never put any of the core worlds on alert until I'm ready to defeat the homeworlds. Having a core world on alert for a long time will get nasty. However, since dysons are now able to shoot mk V targets, it might not be as bad as it seems. will have to try it out.