Author Topic: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling  (Read 1627 times)

Offline DakaSha

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AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« on: May 05, 2010, 06:41:15 pm »
So I read the wiki entry on how to decide whether your playing the right difficulty or not. This is rather important to me due to my OCD and the fact that games take a long time. I really hate starting a game and play for 5 hours just to notice that it's to easy (If i stay alive for 5 hours then there is no such thing as "too hard" :P)

Now in that entry it says that the game is supposed to be the same difficulty pretty much the whole time.. So if it is too easy after an hour maybe you should restart.

Is this still true?

Now just to get this out of the way: I'm a TBS fan so I play with the pause option and I even (first time this game) turned off the Auto AI progress.

I understand this makes things alot easier (or at least there is not so much a sense of urgency which gets to me) so to compensate I I'm currently playing 2 level 8 AI's (Although fairly easy ones: Tank and Teleport Turtle) on a 120 planet map. I play with schizophrenic AI's, Unexplored map, Extra FOW and I've hit the 2:30 mark and so far not having a problem at all (as in it's been extremely easy so far). The AI Progress is 137.

I don't think the auto AI progress is a big deal at this stage (It would only be up by 30... And in past games I had it at over 260 without it being much harder)


Ok so what I'm asking is: Does this get harder as the game goes on? Is the wiki entry bogus and the game is just easy at first and starts getting tougher and tougher once the planets start to fill up, waves get bigger and the AI's tech goes up? Is border Aggression going to make the teleport turtle into any kind of challenge?

As said I'm tired of starting over (I've done it about 25 times...) but I also dont want to waste my time with a super easy setup lol

Btw I tried this setup twice before only I tried a Mad Bomber AI.. The first waves were all around 800(!) ships... Using the tank AI the waves are around 120...

Uhm... Isn't that a bit extreme of a difference? It just makes it EVEN harder to find a fitting difficulty :P

I'm absolutely loving the game so far but the only thing that is putting me off is the fact that I have really no idea how to set it up ^^



edit: On a side note... I'm running a 2.3ghz Dual Core laptop with 2.75 (usable... whatever that means) gigs of ram.. Am I even going to be able to play a 120 map till the end or is it going to get out of hand? I'd also hate to find the right settings just to have to stop sometime before finishing due to a quadrillion ships lol


« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 06:50:11 pm by DakaSha »

Offline x4000

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 07:15:38 pm »
I don't have time for a full response right now, but suffice it to say the answers are rather complex.  The wiki is right, but it's also misleading to some extent.  It really boils down to how you play the game.  If the game is vastly too easy at the start, its unlikely to get that much harder.  That said, the first hour (or two, depending on how methodical you are) usually boil down to a land grab that is not particularly difficult (in a sense of your being about to lose or anything), but which has far-reaching implications for the later game, hence still the need for strategy and intelligence all the way through.

In general, the likelihood of your losing to the AI goes up throughout the entire game, depending -- again -- on how you play.  If you manage to turtle yourself and just hide most of your planets behind some bottleneck while you do some spot raiding, then that might not hold quite as true.  Or if you throw caution to the wind and just try to capture stuff constantly while not paying enough attention to protecting your flanks, there will come a tipping point past which the AI brutally murders you.

In many respects, the AI Progress is pretty much a self-balancing thing, so that the difficulty adapts to how you play as you go.  That said, it's not going to compensate for something that is orders of magnitude too easy or hard.  I'd suggest sticking with diff 8 and seeing how it goes.

As to the question of if your computer can handle 120 planets, that's similarly hard to answer -- it depends on how you play.  Are you planning on trying to capture all 120 planets in an 80-hour odyssey that will lead to 200k+ ship counts?  Then your computer will be pretty hard-pressed, but has a chance of holding up at about half the normal framerate by the end.  If you're planning on playing more or less a "normal" game and taking 20-40 of those planets in 13-25 hours or so, you'll probably be just fine on the framerate, or at any rate any dips you have wouldn't be related solely to being on such a huge map.

My guess is that you're fine on both points.  Trying to balance the difficulty too finely is rather fruitless, as even the map itself can exert such a huge variance on it.  Generally I don't feel threatened myself on diff 7 for the first 8ish hours of a game; but I've lost the last 5 out of 6 games I've played.  Not being immediately threatened is very different from there being no challenge, by the way.  You're setting up very long term positioning and strategies, and so is the AI.  You have to keep an eye on what you're doing and what they are, or else you'll put yourself in a bad position down the line.  On diff 8 I'd be surprised if you didn't have a fun game with a good amount of challenge, if not too much by the end.  If you were playing on diff 1, that would be a different story, which is what the wiki was referring to.
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Offline DakaSha

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 07:19:40 pm »
Ah ok. Great answer for not having the time to answer :P

I plan to (always) destroy the AI as soon as possible (I take the atmosphere and setting very seriously :P ) so i guess frame rate should be fine.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 07:30:12 pm by DakaSha »

Offline x4000

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 11:44:00 pm »
My pleasure!  And sounds like your framerate will be fine, yeah.  I've added this info to the wiki and have greatly expanded it:

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Choosing_A_Difficulty_Level#Is_The_Difficulty_Really_Constant_Throughout_A_Game_Of_AI_War.3F

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Choosing_A_Difficulty_Level#Like_Chess.2C_A_Game_Of_AI_War_Has_Three_Abstract_.22Phases.22

The second one is quite lengthy, but hopefully will help out players in a situation like yours who are having trouble deciding on a difficulty level because of being unsure how things should really proceed in each of the three phases of the game. :)
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Offline DakaSha

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 01:23:46 am »
Great entry's. My longest game was about 5 hours (into the middle game) and played out exactly how you describe haha.

They were needed (in my opinion) and are sure to help other people as well.

As an aspiring game developer your getting somewhere up there with people I "look up to" (for lack of a better phrase heh ;)). Keep it up. Glad I supported you and your company by buying the game.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 01:36:15 am by DakaSha »

Offline superking

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 10:23:58 am »
if you want more challenge earlier in the game, try playing two difficulty 8 special forces captains  ;)

Offline x4000

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Re: AI Progress Difficulty Scaling
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 10:37:18 am »
My pleasure, glad it was of a help! :)
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