AI Eye grind

[Shrugging Khan]

Golems, gentlemen. Golems do it all, and then some.

[Shrugging Khan]

Or at the very least, eyes should not spawn in the same systems as anything having to do with shields.

[TechSY730]

I have to express the same as others in this thread. The AI Eyes as they are now are annoying as hell, and way too much of a grind. My 2 friends and I, play once a week for maybe 6 hours. We only brought the base game a few months back and really enjoyed it, so we brought the first 2 expansions (Still quite a bit to learn).... but when the AI Eyes were changed to having to kill all the guard posts before the EyE died, it also instantly killed a lot of our enjoyment of the game.

It's got to the point now that whenever we find a system we want has an EyE in it, you can hear a collective "SIGH"... and it completely kills the flow of the game... There also seems to be more EyE's than ever.

It's unfortunate, because they are the main thing that is spoilling an otherwise great game.

Edit: A simple solution is to have an option to include them or not (Like Golems, Core Generators etc).. Yes that's how much we dislike them in their current format. We just want rid of them.

How many eye's are you seeing? Until recently there was (another) bug in their spawn rate giving turtle type AIs too many of them.
What version are you playing?

And they are SUPPOSED to disrupt the flow of the game. They are supposed to be a annoying speedbump to the otherwise very powerful "curbstomp or pass through every planet with your giant armada" technique. There were designed to counter that after all. Blobbing is fun, I know, but the devs didn't want you to be able to take on the whole game with blobbing tactics alone. Making the AI eyes optional has been discussed and rejected by the devs in the past. They like how much the AI eyes are speed bump to the ordinary "flow" of most strategies.

I will admit that maybe their health should be dropped by a good proportion (though it should still be high enough for you seriously consider taking out he guard posts instead), as it is a little crazy high right now.

Or at the very least, eyes should not spawn in the same systems as anything having to do with shields.

Why not? We get to pile on ludicrous amounts of defenses on our planets, why can't they?
Again, how often do you see Mk. Spire shield guard posts or Mk. II or above AI FF and an AI eye on the same planet, compared to the overall distribution of those units?
If you almost always see one of those two FF units with an AI eye, then something may be wrong, as their spawn chances should be independent.
Otherwise, you should see that planet as especially tough and come back later when you got more firepower you can send to take care of it effectively.

I do admit that the even with the halved health the Spire shield guard posts they recently got, they still are pretty ridiculously tough.
Just to gather ideas, about how many AI Mk. III forcefields should it take to get the HP of a Mk. I Spire shield guard post? How should their HP growth go with Mk? Is a linear relation of Mk. to HP too steep for this particular guard post?

[BobTheJanitor]

Again, how often do you see Mk. Spire shield guard posts or Mk. II or above AI FF and an AI eye on the same planet, compared to the overall distribution of those units?

It's not a question of how often it happens, really. If it happens once, and it's enough of a bitter pill to swallow that you find it easier to just start a new game, then that means it's happening way too often. But I haven't run into this scenario since the Spire FF nerf, so it may be more palatable now.

[TechSY730]

Again, how often do you see Mk. Spire shield guard posts or Mk. II or above AI FF and an AI eye on the same planet, compared to the overall distribution of those units?

It's not a question of how often it happens, really. If it happens once, and it's enough of a bitter pill to swallow that you find it easier to just start a new game, then that means it's happening way too often. But I haven't run into this scenario since the Spire FF nerf, so it may be more palatable now.

So, you are saying if a player finds an extremely tedious and frustrating challenge, they are more likely to give up on that game and get upset rather than to take that as a cue that they are taking on this planet too early and that they should come back when they have higher level ships to their name?

Now that I think over many of the complaints in these forums and the bug tracker, people are very likely to miss cues that they are not tough enough to take on a challenge yet, try to take it one anyways because of that, find that it is tedious (because they are underpowered), and then get a bad experience and assume that it is an intended part of the game, when it is not.

[jordot42]

So, you are saying if a player finds an extremely tedious and frustrating challenge, they are more likely to give up on that game and get upset rather than to take that as a cue that they are taking on this planet too early and that they should come back when they have higher level ships to their name?

Now that I think over many of the complaints in these forums and the bug tracker, people are very likely to miss cues that they are not tough enough to take on a challenge yet, try to take it one anyways because of that, find that it is tedious (because they are underpowered), and then get a bad experience and assume that it is an intended part of the game, when it is not.

Wow, this is so deep.  So obvious and yet so elusive.  If you can't crack a challenge at this time, come back later when you become stronger. 

I'm not being sarcastic here.  My little quibbles with how tough some planets are have just been solved.

[Shrugging Khan]

What AI types are you using, Flat?

[Nalgas]

Out of the those 65 systems there are 39 Systems with AI Eyes in them... that means 60% of the remaining systems have.. as you put it yourself "An Annoying Speedbump".. (We have already taken out a number of them, but can't remember exact number)

That seems a bit absurd.  I remember having some maps seeded like that before during the betas when it was getting changed around, but I hope it doesn't still do that (or that if it does it's a bug).  I like them when they're relatively infrequent, which is what I've been seeing lately in my own games, because they add variety to how you handle systems, but 40+ in an 80 planet map is just ridicunuts.

[TechSY730]

What AI types are you using, Flat?

...
AI 2 is Turtle
...

You said you are playing the stable version 5.000?

If so, then there is your problem. 5.000 had a nasty bug where turtle AIs had a glithed AI spawn rate, leading to WAY too many AI eyes being created.

Upgrading to the latest beta should fix it, and it will solve several other balance breaking bugs that were in 5.000 too.

Sadly, I don't think it will help pre-existing saves, as the bug impacted initial game generation. You'll have to start a new game in the new version for it to take effect.

If you are worried about the beta's stability, from my experience 5.009 (the latest bet) is stable. In fact, IMO, it is more stable than 5.000.

[Shrugging Khan]

Just start with everything turned on, and remember the first rule of don't-die-like-a-sucker: Take every planet around your homes. Chances are, unless your AIs are above level 8, you'll survive for long enough to get used to all the new things.

[TechSY730]

I had read about that, just thought a bug that bad would be fixed in the latest non-beta version, so it's a relief to find it's a bug and not a usual game. Hopefully the next game will be a lot more enjoyable and not suck the life out of us, like this one.

Now all we've got to learn are the 2 new expansions we just brought

Sadly, the "stable" version 5.000 was a bit rushed (thanks in large part to pressure from distributors). Thanks to that and a few other balance breaking bugs that slipped through, it most certainly shows. 

[Sir t]

To be honest my technique for relatively pain free AI eye neutering, learned the heard way when that bug with turtles was in the game, is

(a) send in a sacrificial force of maybe 40 to 80 or so ships to draw in the AI fleets.

(b) Once those have got the computers attention send in a full cap of raid starships to run around and kill the guard posts. You can also use teleport raiders for this, but that will almost certainly trigger the eye

(c) if there is Spire Shield posts then you can kill the command center and take the system. The spire shield posts will self destruct once the system is yours, as will any stealth guard posts.

Bear in mind that this will set free all the ships on the planet, so you have to be prepared for that.

[Red Spot]

Just use transports, and save your ships/fleet for when you need something that can actually fire back
Keeping your raid-starships in transports effectivly gives them 8million more health