Author Topic: Advice for a Newbie  (Read 2536 times)

Offline jpaulson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Advice for a Newbie
« on: April 27, 2013, 11:14:33 pm »
I'm having trouble getting past the my usual RTS mentality of "expand and kill everything in your path". I've played a few games, but only completed 1 or 2; usually I get into a standoff with the AI it's hard to move forward from. I think I'm being too aggressive. Is 600-700 a reasonable AIP number for endgame?

Some questions on mechanics/strategy I think would help me:
  • Is it worth it to capture worthless worlds in order to maintain a connected territory? If not, what is the best way to deal with enemy planets "in my territory". Kill all the command posts and leave a few dozen ships on FRD there?
  • My understanding is that AI reinforcements only appear in planets which are on alert, and there are distributed more or less evenly among command posts in planets on alert. So killing command posts won't reduce the # of enemy ships, just move them around. Is that basically right?
  • If a planet has no command posts, does it still get reinforcements?
  • Are enemy waves drawn from ships already on the map, or do they appear from nowhere? Can a planet with no command posts and no ships (but a warp gate and command center) spawn a full-size wave?
  • What are some good/interesting things to spend knowledge on? Are Mark III and IV fleet ships worth it?
  • Which command post should I build on newly captured worlds? (I used to build all economic, but I've mostly switched to military because they are less fragile)
  • Is destroying special forces guard posts worth it?
  • Is there a good way to fend off a wave-size attack without running my fleet back? My fleet usually gets bogged down dealing with waves or several-hundred-threat size border skirmishes making it hard to progress.
  • Is there an efficient way to deal with AI eyes? They spawn a *lot*, and especially if there are Shield Spire guard posts, they're extremely painful to take down.
Thanks a bunch!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 11:17:41 pm by jpaulson »

Offline Jonz0rz

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 01:04:02 am »
I'm not exactly the most experienced guy around here, but here goes:

600-700 AIP is pretty high. Some people super lowball it, like sub 100 for the entire game until they hit the homeworlds. Others take the entire galaxy every time they play. I've only won a single game, and it was around 300 AIP at the end. But that's mostly because I don't play tons. I have 2 games going right now, one is at 500 AIP and I'm taking everything in sight. I think I've hit the point where I'm unstoppable in that game. The other is Fallen Spire and I'm at around 150 AIP 8 hours in, preparing to build my first city hub.

1a. It depends. Every planet you capture gives you an energy collector, resource income, and knowledge. At some point though, you'll usually want to skip a few planets to secure something more important (like an Advanced Research Station, Fabricator, or Advanced Factory). However, the extra energy can really help if you take a lot of planets because it's hard to keep everything alive at times.
1b. Kill everything but the command station, then ignore it for the rest of the game.

2. Reinforcements show up at Guardposts and Command Stations. As far as I can tell, killing Guardposts DOES reduce the number of reinforcements. Killing Command Stations will put adjacent planets on alert (making them spawn stuff).

3. Without any Guardposts, yes. It will still gain reinforcements at the Command Station. However, the reinforcement numbers are capped on a per-guardpost basis. Without any guardposts, it's unlikely for them to get a large enough force to trigger "border aggression".

4. During normal waves, no. They just spawn out of thin air. Warp Gates can spawn full sized waves by themselves (there are even "Warp Gate Guardians", which can spawn waves in your territory if they're attacking you when the next wave is announced). However, during Cross Planetary Attacks, ships are taken from the galaxy. I think it's something like 50% of the ships are taken from the "Strategic Reserves", most of the rest from Barracks, then the rest is just taken from kind of anywhere.

5a. Gravity Turrets, Riot Control Starships, Fortresses, Miniforts, Flagships, Forcefields, Hardened Forcefields, Heavy Beam Cannons, Emp Mines, Area Mines, Spider Turrets.
5b. In the current betas, no, Mk. III-IV fleetships aren't worth it (because starships are currently OP in the betas). In the last official release (6.0, most of your starships will have unit caps of 4), yes, absolutely.

6.
Quick and dirty overview:
Economic command Stations give you the most resources, so you can build more attacking units. The extra energy is also handy since it will allow you to afford a bit of extra stuff like mercenaries.

Logistics Command Stations make your ships move REALLY FAST on that planet (it has an extra speed boost that isn't listed in the tooltip), and it will also slow down enemy movement (allowing you more time to respond to an enemy attack against it). If you have to move your fleet around a lot these really help. Also worth noting, the Mark III prevents enemy ships from teleporting, which is situational, but really useful. All Logistics Stations have Advanced Warp Sensors built in, so you can see which wormhole an incoming wave is going to come through, allowing you leave them a nice welcome present, like a warhead or three (the wormhole turns yellow on the main screen, you might have to zoom in to see it).

Military Command Stations are tougher, they have Tachyon Coverage (stealth detection), a Planetwide Damage Boost, and the railguns. The Railguns on a Mark II Station cause engine damage in addition to knockback, allowing it to hold off way more ships than a Mark I. Mark III Military Command Railguns also Paralyze enemy units (in addition to knockback/engine damage), allowing them to single handedly render a force of 300 or so ships useless. Mark III Military Commands give you Planetwide Tachyon coverage, so you don't need to bother with other stealth detectors on that planet.

I've never used Warp Jammers, so I'll let someone else handle those.

In general, all 3 types of command station are useful. You want your borders to have either Military or Logistics, and most of your less important worlds with either Logistics or Economic. Logistics 3 and Military 3 are both very powerful for defense if you unlock them. Unfortunately, you usually can't get more than 1 maxed due to high knowledge costs.

7. I like to think so. It reduces the number of special forces, which makes taking out Core Shield Generators easier.

8. Fortresses can do it, Military Command 3 can do it (up to a point), a ton of turrets can do it, but in general, no. You'll have to pull your fleet back unless you're playing a low AIP game. This is where having "extra planets" comes in handy. You have a few turrets and miniforts on each, and they'll do a bit of damage before they go down.

Mining wormholes can be very effective. I like to place mines around a wormhole, something like this, but centered better, with the fat end facing the command station. I zoom in super close and put them as tightly packed as possible.

 ***
****
**W**
  **

It'll help some, but won't kill entire waves.

9. Build a bunch of transports, put your ships inside, fly up to a guardpost, unload, kill it, rinse, repeat. If the eye is something really dangerous (like a nuclear eye), you can scrap your fleet to stop it immediately. You can also use starships. For Spire Shield Posts, load up the bombers, they get a big damage bonus against them. Spire Starships also have really high DPS and are good for killing them. Also, as long as you don't outnumber the AI more than 2:1, it won't trigger it's eye. You can put your fleet in standby mode as it flies around to the next guardpost to stop it from killing enemy ships along the way.

I hope that helps!

Oh yeah, and Welcome to the Forums and all that :).

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 02:18:47 pm »
Turrets in general are useful for defense, but singular turrets (with the occasional exception of the tractor turret on tiny waves, or the tachyon detector turret) are going to do bugger all. You get a whole bunch of them to place and usually only have so many places you have to face attacks from by wave. I usually give any planet I take its set of mini-forts, a ctrl set of sniper turrets and spider turrets, maybe a forcefield over something important, and then leave it be and put the majority of my turrets on my borderworlds where they'll be needed, along with a substantial set of them at my homeworld.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 03:05:49 pm »
    I'm having trouble getting past the my usual RTS mentality of "expand and kill everything in your path". I've played a few games, but only completed 1 or 2; usually I get into a standoff with the AI it's hard to move forward from. I think I'm being too aggressive. Is 600-700 a reasonable AIP number for endgame?

    For a 7/7 game I'd say that's a touch high. For higher difficulties, it's definitely too high. The AI will, at that point, reinforce so hard that you are unlikely to be able to break the Core worlds without taking horrific losses and having to rebuild. The waves also start to become a problem by then. I'd aim for 300-400, probably.

    Is it worth it to capture worthless worlds in order to maintain a connected territory? If not, what is the best way to deal with enemy planets "in my territory". Kill all the command posts and leave a few dozen ships on FRD there?

    THat's pretty much it. I don't think you'd even need to leave any ships there. If all guardposts (and the warpgate) are destroyed, that planet is unlikely to reinforce enough to cause any border aggression.

    My understanding is that AI reinforcements only appear in planets which are on alert, and there are distributed more or less evenly among command posts in planets on alert. So killing command posts won't reduce the # of enemy ships, just move them around. Is that basically right?

    AI reinforcements can happen on any of the AI-owned planets, regardless of alert status. However, important planets (HW, core) and alerted planets get prioritized. Core planets even more so if they are on alert. Killing guard posts limit the max-cap of ships that can exist on a planet as guards. So it does help with buildup in the long run (preventing a brick wall), but doesn't actual reduce the rate (AFAIK).

    If a planet has no command posts, does it still get reinforcements?

    Yes. It will still reinforce the Command Station.

    Are enemy waves drawn from ships already on the map, or do they appear from nowhere? Can a planet with no command posts and no ships (but a warp gate and command center) spawn a full-size wave?

    Waves are sent from the AI's production facilities outside the galaxy (thus technically spawned out of nowhere). Wave size is determined by difficulty, AI type and AI progress. CPA (Cross Planet Attacks) will free guarding ships across the galaxy, and is thus not spawned, but just freed as threat. As long as a planet has ANY warp gate (Eyes counts as warp gates), a planet can send any size of wave against adjacent planets.

    What are some good/interesting things to spend knowledge on? Are Mark III and IV fleet ships worth it?

    This is very much down to what you are up against and what is going on. Many people feel the MK3-4 ships are not worth it at this time, but there is balancing in the betas going on with just that. Good things to unlock are Harvesters, Mobile Repair station, MK II ships, Gravity Turrets and Heavy Beam Cannons.

    Which command post should I build on newly captured worlds? (I used to build all economic, but I've mostly switched to military because they are less fragile)

    Again up to positioning. Is it in danger of getting attacked soon? Military. Is it safe? Economic. Is it a "highway"? Logistic.

    Is destroying special forces guard posts worth it?

    Yes, pretty much always. If they are in enemy territory, less so, but if you intend to capture the planet, yes absolutely. Every post in your territory increase the Special Forces "blob" size cap by 5%.

    Is there a good way to fend off a wave-size attack without running my fleet back? My fleet usually gets bogged down dealing with waves or several-hundred-threat size border skirmishes making it hard to progress.

    Tractor turrets, gravity turrets and a mix of the other turret types. Usually, I try to keep only a few planets adjacent to active warp gates. Ideally only ONE. That way you can prepare a much stronger defense because you know where the wave will hit. A max cap of turrets will take care of almost anything the AI can toss at you on 7/7.

    Is there an efficient way to deal with AI eyes? They spawn a *lot*, and especially if there are Shield Spire guard posts, they're extremely painful to take down.

    AI Eyes will only spawn (or trigger) if you have more than x2 it's forces on the planet. Attacking it with a pure wave of bombers, or run up to it with transports and dump the bombers on top of it usually helps. But you should remember that the AI Eye will self-detonate if you take out all the guard posts on the planet (barring WH guardposts). Raid starships are good for that.[/list]
    « Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 03:14:19 pm by Moonshine Fox »
    Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

    Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

    Offline jpaulson

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 2
    Re: Advice for a Newbie
    « Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 07:07:36 pm »
    THat's pretty much it. I don't think you'd even need to leave any ships there. If all guardposts (and the warpgate) are destroyed, that planet is unlikely to reinforce enough to cause any border aggression.
    I haven't been destroying the warpgates. +5 AIP for the benefit of "no waves out of this planet" seems like a bad deal. Am I wrong? Does the warpgate do anything other than send waves (e.g. attract more reinforcements)? Does reducing the number of warp gates in the galaxy reduce the # of waves I will see at all? (or just where they hit)

    Thanks for the suggestions!

    Offline Mánagarmr

    • Core Member Mark V
    • *****
    • Posts: 4,272
    • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
    Re: Advice for a Newbie
    « Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 08:09:13 pm »
    I haven't been destroying the warpgates. +5 AIP for the benefit of "no waves out of this planet" seems like a bad deal. Am I wrong?

    Well, destroying the gate on a planet ensures that you will NEVER get any waves from that planet. A warp gate (remember Eyes counts as gates too) can only send waves to planets adjacent to them. So if you destroy every gate around your territory, save for ONE gate, you can with 100% certainly know which planet will be getting waves, thus focus all of your turret defense on that planet, freeing up your mobile fleet for actual offense.

    (The term for this, internally here at Arcen forums, is "Whipping Boy")

    Does the warpgate do anything other than send waves (e.g. attract more reinforcements)? Does reducing the number of warp gates in the galaxy reduce the # of waves I will see at all? (or just where they hit)

    No, gates ONLY send waves to adjacent planets. They don't affect anything else.
    « Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 08:12:15 pm by Moonshine Fox »
    Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

    Thank you for contributing to making the game better!