Author Topic: A few questions for my first campaign  (Read 6681 times)

Offline Morthis

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A few questions for my first campaign
« on: October 27, 2009, 10:39:21 am »
Hello, I just bought the full version of the game, I played through the campaign tutorial on the demo and just started my first game, I had a few questions if people don't mind.

First off, what difficulty would you recommend for someone who is used to RTS games but new to this one in particular?  I ask because right now it's on 5, and in ~1 hour of playtime, the AI has sent one wave (progress is at 32 I believe).  I picked something low'ish because I didn't want to get completely destroyed while figuring everything out, but right now it feels like the AI is mostly just letting me do whatever.  I don't know if progress increases the rate at which these waves appear or only the strength of them.

The reason I'm 1 hour in with what is probably pretty low progress is because the first planet I took had a forcefield around a special ops station.  The problem was I had to shoot it forever with cruisers since my bombers would just get obliterated if they got close enough to shoot.  Was there some sort of research or anything I should have done to speed that up?  I swear I spent at least 10-15 minutes just shooting that forcefield.

Which brings me to my last question, research.  The tutorial mainly just covers mark upgrades, and there's so much more research to get.  Early on, should I focus on mark upgrades?  Should I get a starship early or wait?  Basically I'm a bit at a loss of what research I should focus on first.

Offline Kjara

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 11:38:27 am »
I tend to do the following research wise:
At least 2 or 3 mk II upgrades(depending on opponent/special unit--The big boost here is energy efficiency, since mkI and mkII units require the same energy per unit, and mkII's are close to 2x as strong in many cases)
1 starship type(either raid if I have a faster unit mix or flagship if I'm using cruisers offensively)
a couple of turret upgrades(usually laser and missile 1, and sometimes laser 2--this is more for a strategy I like though, so not really necessary that early for normal play).

That covers my first 16k or so knowledge.

Of course this changes slightly if i need to throw exo-shields in, etc, but its more a general rule of thumb rather than anything set in stone.

Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 12:00:12 pm »
Hello, I just bought the full version of the game, I played through the campaign tutorial on the demo and just started my first game, I had a few questions if people don't mind.

Not at all!  People here love to share. :)

First off, what difficulty would you recommend for someone who is used to RTS games but new to this one in particular?  I ask because right now it's on 5, and in ~1 hour of playtime, the AI has sent one wave (progress is at 32 I believe).  I picked something low'ish because I didn't want to get completely destroyed while figuring everything out, but right now it feels like the AI is mostly just letting me do whatever.  I don't know if progress increases the rate at which these waves appear or only the strength of them.

Don't let it lull you, haha.  It is true that the waves get more frequent when the difficulty level increases, but so too does the ferocity of those waves.  One thing to keep in mind is that the waves also get bigger the longer it has been between them, even on a given difficulty.  So your next wave in this game might come in only 15 minutes, say, and be half the size.  The next one might not come for an hour, but would be huge.  Even on the higher difficulties, the waves are not incessant simply because you need some time to take some offensive action without constantly being embattled on your own planets.

On the lower difficulties (below 7), the AI is not too much of a threat usually at the start of the game, but again, don't let that lull you.  The higher that AI Progress gets, the more of a danger they will be.  There's a fair chance that diff 5 is a bit on the low side for you, from the sounds of it, so you might enjoy playing on diff 7 if you don't mind the possibility of a few losses.  Some strategy players prefer to start lower and get a few victories, then move up.  Some prefer to start a bit higher, struggle for a bit and possibly lose a few times, then come out stronger.  Just depends on which camp you are in that you might prefer.

The reason I'm 1 hour in with what is probably pretty low progress is because the first planet I took had a forcefield around a special ops station.  The problem was I had to shoot it forever with cruisers since my bombers would just get obliterated if they got close enough to shoot.  Was there some sort of research or anything I should have done to speed that up?  I swear I spent at least 10-15 minutes just shooting that forcefield.

The higher-level bombers have much better range, so unlocking them can make this sort of situation easier.  Alternatively, there are a few starships (Raid, mostly) that can shoot through forcefields, or you could use an EMP and then send in your cruisers after the special forces guard post while everything is stunned.  Something like massed sniper turrets can also be pretty effective, or potentially even a pair of lightning warheads, though I've not tried that and so that may or may not actually work.

You can always "brute force it" like you did, but that takes forever -- there are generally at least 3 or 4 ways to crack most problems such as this one.

Which brings me to my last question, research.  The tutorial mainly just covers mark upgrades, and there's so much more research to get.  Early on, should I focus on mark upgrades?  Should I get a starship early or wait?  Basically I'm a bit at a loss of what research I should focus on first.

Well, it depends on your playstyle, honestly, and you'll figure out what matches your style as you go.  kjara gave a great example of what he does, and I think that's one good way to handle it.

For myself personally, I'm traditionally a boomer/economic fiend in other RTS games, so I tend to do something more like:
Command Station II (under ECON)
At Least 2 or 3 Mark II upgrades
At least 1 o 2 Mark III upgrades
Spider Turrets, or perhaps Basic Turret IIs, or both
Possibly Engineers II
Possibly higher-level scouts

And that pretty much sets me for the early game.  Upgrading the mark levels is pretty key in most cases, because it gets you more ship cap, and therefore more ships to use.  However, some people play the opposite and unlock the Starships instead.  That lets you really have smaller fleets, but with these super powerful starships at the center of them.  Or you can find something of a balance there.

I think it's a good idea to avoid unlocking too many turrets or defensive techs until you really need them.  Although, some people find that mobile repair stations and/or transports are something of a must-have for their play styles.  It depends on what you really want to emphasize.  If you go the starships route, a popular line is the flagships-to-Zenith-to-Spire route, because those are the most powerful starships you can get, and they really pack a punch.  But the AI is good at defending against just them, so it's very smart to pair them with a reasonable fleet as well.
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Offline Haagenti

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 01:11:15 pm »
The reason I'm 1 hour in with what is probably pretty low progress is because the first planet I took had a forcefield around a special ops station.  The problem was I had to shoot it forever with cruisers since my bombers would just get obliterated if they got close enough to shoot.  Was there some sort of research or anything I should have done to speed that up?  I swear I spent at least 10-15 minutes just shooting that forcefield.

A progress of 32 is still very low. To build a reasonable economy and fleet size you will need more planets, and these cost 20 AI/planet to clear (10 for the Command Center, 10 for the Warp Gate). One you hit around 150 or so, the waves become more than a nuisance.

Which brings me to my last question, research.  The tutorial mainly just covers mark upgrades, and there's so much more research to get.  Early on, should I focus on mark upgrades?  Should I get a starship early or wait?  Basically I'm a bit at a loss of what research I should focus on first.

My style is different from X: I go for Mark IIIs quickly as:
- they are very energy-efficient
- they are also very resource-efficient (more bang for your buck)
- once you start encountering Ion Cannons (units that rapidly one-shot I and sometimes II ships) they are necessary

So my at-start research builds are:
- Mark III Basic Turrets (for defense, but this is not a real immediate necessity at AI 5)
- Mark III Cruisers (so you can field as many cruisers as possible)
- Mark III Fighters (so you can field as many fighters as possible)
and if I have a good special ship, Mark III specials as well
I usually don't bother with bombers as these are expensive and die easily. I prefer to unsupply forcefields at start, and otherwise use large amounts of cruisers and later on Raid starships)

But your mileage may vary....

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Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 01:27:02 pm »
I think the moral of the story, in general, is that everyone has a build that they prefer, and no two players are going to give you the same answer here.  But there are several good ideas here, which one you choose is mostly down to what style of play you most prefer.
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Offline Kjara

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 02:24:57 pm »
The common thread is that its almost always worth it to unlock at least a couple mkII units(I notice new players trying to attack with just mkI's).  What else you do besides this is very debatable, but I think most of us would agree that having at least 2 mkII+ units at the start tends to work well.

Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 02:35:24 pm »
Yes, I agree.  I value bombers over fighters because of the damage they deal to force fields, etc, but otherwise I think that it's most important to just get mark ii ships of some sort early on.
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Offline Velox

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2009, 03:43:51 pm »

     Interesting.  I usually stick with MKIs for quite a while, and instead research MKII engineers, MKII command stations, and various defensives (turrets etc.)  I build up a few MKIs and use them for defense, then build raid starships, smash the surrounding systems, and then move on to neutering adjoining planets while I build up the now-empty neighboring planets. 

Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2009, 03:47:49 pm »

     Interesting.  I usually stick with MKIs for quite a while, and instead research MKII engineers, MKII command stations, and various defensives (turrets etc.)  I build up a few MKIs and use them for defense, then build raid starships, smash the surrounding systems, and then move on to neutering adjoining planets while I build up the now-empty neighboring planets. 

See, and I think that's valid, too.  It's a bit more of a turtling approach for the early game, but it sets you up well to really power safely out into enemy territory later, especially if you steal some knowledge.  That's why I call this "build your own civilization," because these drastically different playstyles that we've got here would basically be different civs in another RTS, just more rigidly defined.  One style might work better than another for very advanced play, or in certain specific map seeds, but as a general rule I think people should play in the way that matches their own tastes and comforts, rather than trying to ascribe too heavily to generalized "best practices."
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Offline Morthis

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2009, 07:00:25 pm »
Thank you for the replies.  I went with Engineer II (I really like having the teleporting engineers on roaming defender, placing 2 in systems I am actively building my fleet or expect constant attacks for repairs), the flagship, mark II bombers/fighters/scouts so far.  The scouts were really needed since I couldn't scout more than 2 hops out, not even with 10 scout I's together.

I just got the message cross-planet attack in 15 minutes (180 or so ships).  I don't recall this being covered in the tutorial.  Is there any way to know where the attack will happen?  How would one realistically prepare for it?  Split my entire fleet between my 3 planets?

Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2009, 07:17:27 pm »
I just got the message cross-planet attack in 15 minutes (180 or so ships).  I don't recall this being covered in the tutorial.  Is there any way to know where the attack will happen?  How would one realistically prepare for it?  Split my entire fleet between my 3 planets?

Great question -- I've added this to the wiki:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Cross_Planet_Attacks

Let me know if there are further questions!
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Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2009, 08:05:06 pm »
I've added these example unlock paths to the wiki, too, because I think that is potentially useful for new players:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Technologies
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Offline Velox

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2009, 08:46:07 pm »

      :(

Offline x4000

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 10:45:38 pm »

      :(

My bad!  I didn't mean to skip yours, I was just working quickly and missed it because of the formatting difference (yours was a paragraph, not bullets like the others).  I've added that to the page now, I thought that was a cool and very contrast-ful one.  Sorry about the oversight! :)
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Offline RCIX

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Re: A few questions for my first campaign
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 04:24:00 am »
I'm a little late here but i wrote a whole thread on "Tips for new players", which i hope helps.

As far as what i unlock: I usually unlock some sort of upgraded turret technology, the Flagship (starship that can work Wonders against ai ships), then generally spend most of my knowledge into upgrading unit types. A few miscellaneous things i unlock are Advanced Warp Sensor (helps to know which wormhole ships of doom are coming out of), Harvester Exo-Shield (really a must have, for a small resource cost you get nearly invulnerable resource points (at least to marauding ships (yes this is 3 levels of parens (i program too much, get me out of this! aaaaahhhhh!!!!)))), and then to round out my knowledge some i pick short-level turrets mark 2.
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