Arcen Forums

General Category => AI War Classic => AI War Classic - Mods & Modding => Topic started by: kissandra79 on July 13, 2011, 06:39:50 PM

Title: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: kissandra79 on July 13, 2011, 06:39:50 PM
Hello,

Is there a way to use the game as a "Programming based game".

For instance, Robocode is a Java based game, where players write java code to control robots that compete with each other.

I was wondering if there is a way to write some kind of code that would play against the AI in "AI Wars"?

It would be interesting to be able to write code that would play against the AI that ships with "AI Wars"..or even against code that is written by other players..

In conclusion, I would like to know if something like that is possible?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 13, 2011, 06:42:43 PM
Sorry, but that's not the kind of game this is, and there's not any capacity for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: kissandra79 on July 14, 2011, 03:08:21 AM
You seem quite disinterested in allowing the game to be used in the way I mentioned. I honestly believe that by allowing the game to be used that way, you will be pulling in a new kind of crowd. And a varied crowd will introduce the authors of the game to new and interesting ideas that otherwise would have never been thought off. It's like a feedback loop that serves to improve the game in many ways. I've played the game for a few hours now, and absolutely love it. With it's strategic complexity I think it could be great as a "Programming based game" as well.

So I don't believe you when you say, 'modding it to allow that sort of functionality is impossible'.

Thanks
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: Nalgas on July 14, 2011, 06:42:56 AM
So I don't believe you when you say, 'modding it to allow that sort of functionality is impossible'.

Strictly speaking it is possible, but you have to keep in mind that the game is made by one and a half people who are currently working on getting another entire game ready for release this fall, so in a practical sense, that's way out of the scope of what can really be done with limited development resources.

Would it be kind of neat to be able to play around with stuff like that?  Absolutely, but there's already other stuff out there that does that well.  Would it be worth it at the expense of taking away from the already limited time they have to keep working on the kinds of things the game's already good at rather than diluting their efforts?
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 14, 2011, 08:05:00 AM
I never said impossible. But you're right that I don't have any interest in a game of that sort. It's a neat sort of idea, but not the sort of game I set out to make, or have interest in making. I could pull in vastly more players by making it PvP, too, but that's also just not he kind of game it is. I think it's important, when making a game as a small company, to know what kind of game you are making and not try to make every Hamas into all things for all people.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: Nalgas on July 14, 2011, 08:08:53 AM
not try to make every Hamas into all things for all people.

I'm not even sure where to begin making a joke out of that one...
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 14, 2011, 08:11:50 AM
:P Stupid iPhone!
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: Echo35 on July 15, 2011, 10:21:09 AM
Plus, with how the AI is super overpowered compared to the player, it wouldn't exactly be hard to program an AI to win, or do something particular. It would get boring fast imo.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: kissandra79 on July 15, 2011, 03:28:24 PM
So I don't believe you when you say, 'modding it to allow that sort of functionality is impossible'.

Strictly speaking it is possible, but you have to keep in mind that the game is made by one and a half people who are currently working on getting another entire game ready for release this fall, so in a practical sense, that's way out of the scope of what can really be done with limited development resources.

Would it be kind of neat to be able to play around with stuff like that?  Absolutely, but there's already other stuff out there that does that well.  Would it be worth it at the expense of taking away from the already limited time they have to keep working on the kinds of things the game's already good at rather than diluting their efforts?

No where in my original post did I imply anything about the authors of the game pitching in to make this idea a reality. The purpose of my post was to ask if it was possible and if it was, how it might be done. I would like to do it if it is within my realm of complexity.

And in no way would I want the one and half people to divert attention from the game being made right now. I would rather see valley of the wind out the door as ssoon as possible.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 15, 2011, 03:32:14 PM
No where in my original post did I imply anything about the authors of the game pitching in to make this idea a reality. The purpose of my post was to ask if it was possible and if it was, how it might be done. I would like to do it if it is within my realm of complexity.

And in no way would I want the one and half people to divert attention from the game being made right now. I would rather see valley of the wind out the door as ssoon as possible.

We're good, I understood that.  Hence my original post that the game doesn't have that capacity for expansion at the moment.  It doesn't have any sort of scripting language integrated, nor any way of issuing orders and such via that sort of mechanism, and that would be nontrivial to add, is all.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: kissandra79 on July 15, 2011, 03:39:41 PM

Plus, with how the AI is super overpowered compared to the player, it wouldn't exactly be hard to program an AI to win, or do something particular. It would get boring fast imo.

Oh really? If you make a claim, don't talk about it. Prove it. Overpowering the AI? Get boring fast?

To me it seems like a string of thoughts formed without any rational basis.

Well, it is one thing to write code that can beat the AI that comes with the game. It's completely another thing to beat code that was written by another like minded player.

Please don't take offense with anything I said. I have issues with your ideas. Not you :)
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: kissandra79 on July 15, 2011, 03:49:31 PM
No where in my original post did I imply anything about the authors of the game pitching in to make this idea a reality. The purpose of my post was to ask if it was possible and if it was, how it might be done. I would like to do it if it is within my realm of complexity.

And in no way would I want the one and half people to divert attention from the game being made right now. I would rather see valley of the wind out the door as ssoon as possible.

We're good, I understood that.  Hence my original post that the game doesn't have that capacity for expansion at the moment.  It doesn't have any sort of scripting language integrated, nor any way of issuing orders and such via that sort of mechanism, and that would be nontrivial to add, is all.

Anything worth working on is ever trivial. I understand that the game was not designed with that kind of game play. But as long as its possible, it is worth pursuing.

As authors of the game, I believe you are in the best position to tell me how someone might go about doing something like this... in spite of the difficulties involved. Anything about the internal working of the game would help. Or if you can point me to any documents that talk about how the game is organized internally, that would help as well. I am just looking for a birds eye view of the game, to understand which parts are modular and which or not. That would help me make a decision on how "non trivial" this might turn out to be. Other than spending a few moments to point me in the right direction I don't expect anything else from the authors. I have to admit though, I am not sure if I am right in asking for those few moments for free.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 15, 2011, 03:51:08 PM
Let's hold the rudeness in check, please.  Echo35 isn't under any obligation to prove his opinion any more than anyone else is.  His premise was that writing an AI to beat the player using the AI side of AI War would be trivial, I think, but that's not what kissandra79 was getting at.  There is not very clear communication in general in this thread, and it's just going to spiral into unproductiveness if people start getting rude.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: x4000 on July 15, 2011, 03:54:02 PM
Anything worth working on is ever trivial. I understand that the game was not designed with that kind of game play. But as long as its possible, it is worth pursuing.

As authors of the game, I believe you are in the best position to tell me how someone might go about doing something like this... in spite of the difficulties involved. Anything about the internal working of the game would help. Or if you can point me to any documents that talk about how the game is organized internally, that would help as well. Other spending a few moments to point me in the right direction I don't expect anything else from the authors. I have to admit though, I am not sure if I am right in asking for those few moments for free.

Thanks.

I'm saying it would be nontrivial for us.  Short of decompiling and altering the game, then distributing an unlicensed copy of the game to others to use, there's no way for you to accomplish this on your own.  This is a closed source game.  In order for it to happen, we the developers of the game would have to spend a nontrivial amount of time adding in scripting language support, and then setting up ways for that scripting language to access the various variables of the game.  It's very doable, but it's a nontrivial amount of time and not something that we have inherent interest in.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: Giegue on July 22, 2011, 07:13:46 PM
it looks to me like this stemed from an "I want to watch someone/something else play instead of play myself" sort of a thing.
Title: Re: Writing a module to play with the AI
Post by: Ozymandiaz on September 02, 2011, 08:41:57 AM
it looks to me like this stemed from an "I want to watch someone/something else play instead of play myself" sort of a thing.

I guess kinda like they did with DEFCON. Opening it up so that folks can make an AI to beat the games AI.

In it self it is an interesting thing to do, if you like making AIs, or as a learning excercise in AIs. The game needs to support it though, and if it is not built for that kinda thing it makes it not so easy as pointed out.