Special Fortress Captain

[TechSY730]

I will try again on a new map, and hopefully the AI won't have Z siege engines. Which I now hate more than eyebots. They murdered even a 2-city FS fleet with champion in a couple of volleys. With a normal threatball. And the SF captain had groups of hundreds of the things.

Hate as in annoying to deal with (like eyebots), or hate as in they are so OP you can pretty much give up if you are facing a properly managed group of them (that is, if they are OP)?

[keith.lamothe]

What is your stance on the AI Homeworlds? And the possible buffing thereof?

Still meaning to get there, just need to finally get the last of the Ancient Shadows content done before I can focus AIW time on more general issues.

[Faulty Logic]

Hate as in annoying to deal with (like eyebots), or hate as in they are so OP you can pretty much give up if you are facing a properly managed group of them (that is, if they are OP)?

Both: because they let the AI stand up to (indeed, completely obliterate) FS fleets, and demand micro to be dealt with. They also interact very poorly with existing micro-reducing measures (attack-move, FRD) when in human hands, and cause stagnation like nothing else (the spec forces blob killed my entire fleet in a couple volleys).

These need a nerf, but not a huge one. I experienced a fringe case (SF Captain, doom) but the presence of these ships were a vast obstacle to my expansion throughout the 13-hour game, and were a big factor in my defeat.

All that said, I like the new tactics they require. I just hate their guts.

[Hearteater]

What type of nerf would have made them bearable?  Health?  Damage?  Range?  Speed?  Multipliers?  Reload?

[Faulty Logic]

Health. They are ridiculously durable for artillery units. If I could take a few of them with me with a cap of fighters or a champion, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

[orzelek]

Zenith sieges would be in similar boat that bombards in AI hands. They are large low cap units that are balanced for player with strict cap which AI can ignore completely.
And for sieges it's the additional sticker on a hull: "I kill champions(and other heavy stuff)". It makes it more.. annoying than bombards probably.

[KDR_11k]

And for sieges it's the additional sticker on a hull: "I kill champions(and other heavy stuff)". It makes it more.. annoying than bombards probably.

"We took murder and stuck an engine on it".

[TechSY730]

Zenith sieges would be in similar boat that bombards in AI hands. They are large low cap units that are balanced for player with strict cap which AI can ignore completely.
And for sieges it's the additional sticker on a hull: "I kill champions(and other heavy stuff)". It makes it more.. annoying than bombards probably.

Sigh...
Once again, it needs to be said, the AI does not completley ignore ship caps. The AI will get less ship of a low ship cap per reinforce/wave/whatever than they would of gotten if they chose a normal ship cap ship, based on the ratios of ship caps.
It is important to note this is impacts how many ships the AI gets of a type; the game does not force the AI to keep their current counts consistent with the ship cap ratios.
For example, the AI is free to pick to reinforce with Seige Engines 20 times in a row. However, they would get only 1/4 as many as if they chose, say, fighters 20 times in a row. (or is the Seige engine's cap 1/8 of normal? If so, it would be 1/8 as many Seige engines)

So yes, the AI can somewhat ignore ship caps, but not completley.

[KDR_11k]

Siege Engines have a cap of 8, fighters are 96 so 1/12th.

[Toranth]

Zenith sieges would be in similar boat that bombards in AI hands. They are large low cap units that are balanced for player with strict cap which AI can ignore completely.
And for sieges it's the additional sticker on a hull: "I kill champions(and other heavy stuff)". It makes it more.. annoying than bombards probably.

Sigh...
Once again, it needs to be said, the AI does not completley ignore ship caps. The AI will get less ship of a low ship cap per reinforce/wave/whatever than they would of gotten if they chose a normal ship cap ship, based on the ratios of ship caps.
It is important to note this is impacts how many ships the AI gets of a type; the game does not force the AI to keep their current counts consistent with the ship cap ratios.
For example, the AI is free to pick to reinforce with Seige Engines 20 times in a row. However, they would get only 1/4 as many as if they chose, say, fighters 20 times in a row. (or is the Seige engine's cap 1/8 of normal? If so, it would be 1/8 as many Seige engines)

So yes, the AI can somewhat ignore ship caps, but not completley.

Actually, there are places where the AI will completely ignore ship caps.  Hybrid drones is the example that comes to mind right away.  I don't think Special Forces take caps directly into account, but rather only use the 'strength' value of a ship when spawning.  That might explain why there were so many ZSieges.

[keith.lamothe]

Actually, there are places where the AI will completely ignore ship caps.  Hybrid drones is the example that comes to mind right away.

That's not exactly true; the hybrids have a much smaller chance of picking the really-small-cap ships like sieges, though I had to correct some omissions to that logic a day or so ago. 

I don't think Special Forces take caps directly into account, but rather only use the 'strength' value of a ship when spawning.

For most ships that have caps, "strength" is based directly on the cap, so SF does take caps directly into account.