Author Topic: Oh. Dear. Lord.  (Read 10107 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2012, 09:53:49 PM »
Score another one for the AI!

(though the AI's Zenith Reprocessors going after your home settlements is a disturbing bit of emergent imagery)
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2012, 10:45:51 PM »
Do you feel like the Spire Railclusters are OP? I was sort of getting that feeling when I was playing around with them (and of course, the AI decided to unlock them the same game too, so I got to see the other side of this as well...)

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 12:46:45 AM »
Score another one for the AI!

(though the AI's Zenith Reprocessors going after your home settlements is a disturbing bit of emergent imagery)

Funny, however.  Rather funny.

Hah, finally found a map where I could start with the Spire Railcluster.  To hell with that, with how badly those things ate me last game?  GIMME.

On a random personal side note: I'm getting rather sick of cough drops, but they're a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

Alright, startup. Not making the same economic error twice, straight to Harvester IIIs... right after I stop having to restart the game because I CAN'T FRICKIN CLICK THE RIGHT TARGET....  and Mini-Fortress.

So, startup... homeworld is Picard, and it's one away from a cluster-road.  This cluster has 3 inroads to it.  Sox (2/2), the cluster road and my original intent as the primary whipping boy, is a MK IV with a CoP on it.  How special.

My other 'easy grabs' are really weak in resources and are MK Is. Greeeaaat. That's Meander (2/1) and Kirk (1/0).

Misery's a MK III (3/3) and is 3 hops out.  That might be a decent next point.  Spagetti, the inroad from the other cluster to Sox, is a MK III with a counter on it.  Tau is pretty much the same just no counter. 

2 Planets north of me on Eridani(2/2) is a grav drill... on the MK IV world.  Well, great.  Just past that is a Data Center on a MK III on Shawshank (1/2).

5:30 in.  Fleet's about half built, both mini-forts up on homeworld.  Econ's famine still but that's expected.  Open up Grav I turrets and drop a 5 turret screen near the CC to help screen it from problems.

First wave announces at 7:25 again, 75+2 to Homeworld.  Fleet should JUSt finish by the time they arrive.  I'm still poking my Scout Is around the starter cluster.  First defense went well enough but the enemy has fireflies, so there's now a bunch of threat out there.

Finally having gotten all my Scout I's to 3-outs I've got nothing of interest in the immediate neighborhood.  I've already begun the engagement on Sox, the MK IV neighbor and eventual whpping boy.  The enemy has Gravity Drains, so that's making this more uncomfortable as well.  It'll also pretty much negate any Raid SS tactics I'd usually apply.

I've decided I'm going to ride an artifically inflated AIP due to the neighboring CoP to set the whipping boy up properly and early... which is immediately short-circuited when I look at wormhole layouts for Sox.  Dammit.  Setting up over on Spagetti on the other side makes a lot more sense.  Planet is crap for resources though, 1/1... BAH, dangit.

I had to come back with the fleet after cleaning off a FF III with MK I units on Sox to catch a wave that was hitting homeworld from behind.  The trap between them and the mini-forts worked nicely.  Out of curiousity though I setup a mobile builder.  I'm going to try to build a few on Sox.  Nope, CoP blocks supply on those, too.  Rats.

Map is attached below.

So, hrm.  Do I take Sox and it's barely a Grav I distance between the homeworld and the cluster connector, or don't I.  I could, in theory, just pop the Warp Gate and move on somewhere else, but I'd particularly picked this world for both the Railgun and the cluster-connector whipping boy/chokepoint.  Hrm.

If I break through the Tach emitters at Smurf Village and Tau in the center I should be able to land scouts onto the rest of the cluster worlds.  I need to see more options.  Sox is basically broken at this point.  It's got an SF, the CC/Warp, and the CoP on it.  A whopping 7 combat ships, too.  Guess I'll punch through the middle.  I don't like ANY of my current options.

Problem one... Tau has a Parasite Eye and dual Ions.  The ions will need to go.  Send the Fleet to Meander to clear the way for the Raids.  I don't know how well this will work with that much Grav Drain out there but hell, worth a shot.

I grab a save at 38:00 simply because I'm morbidly curious about what a Parasite eye will actually do to the fleet.  Also, since one of the AIs at least is using mines, I fire up a few scout SSs so I can remove some of the space junk.

I... kind of sadly... never really end up actually FIGHTING the eye on round 1 in that system.  The fleet ended up running face first into a bunch of MK III and some guardians, and then trying to take out the FF III in that system over one of the posts just stalled up and died a lot.  They got sent home without ever lighting up the eye, but they did clear out a nice chunk of enemy.  The Raids head out to deal with the little MLRS under glass issue... and promptly die in the attempt, getting it to 31% before dual Artillery Guardians lay them to rest.  Oops.

Skipping some back and forth aginst Tau which is just me bitching about a double refleet, I get a lookeeloo at Confederation, with a DC, Z-Gennie, 0/0 world with 4 ions and is MK IV.  The only Mk II or less worlds I have seen in two games have been directly adjacent to the homeworld.  RNG hate me much?

1 hour update: Not a hell of a lot done. Dig dig dig.  Finally decide to drop the K on Scout IIs and hit energy edge.  Fire up a converter on homeworld.

At 1:10 I've finally punched through the Eye on Tau with the MK I fleet.  The first assault on Smurf Village with what's left goes... poorly.  It does release a bunch of defenders however.  It'll take a few runs.   right on the entry is a FF III with some guardians under glass to harass me to death so I'm refleeting, while the half-fleet hit the freed threat.

About when the Raids visit Smurf Village to knock out that FF/Guardpost that's going to give me so much grief I notice it's got a CSG-E on it... and the massive SF reinforcement that just showed up.. Ho boy.

The fleet had already retreated to prep for an inbound wave to homeworld. 

Finally got the cluster scouted about 1:24.  There is nothing particularly special... anywhere.

At about 1:35 my little dual mini-fort beachhead on Meander falls to a massive stockpile of Guardian IIIs, in particular the artillery's one-shot pop 'em.  The fleet has to go in and cover for the rebuild.

Hey!  The new mini-forts gather scout intel.  Keith finally got me my pickets!  WOOT... alright, not exactly, these still piss off the neighbors.  The unprotected beach-head however got itself slaughtered by drifters because I forgot to have the mini-forts stop shooting at a Wormhole Guardpost (note to self... not enough firepower to bother).

2 hour status: Not a damn thing has really happened other than fighting my way off homeworld with my MK I fleet and going nowhere.  I've toyed with a few strategies and learned more about the mini-forts and SF forces, and generally gotten a better feel for what the new ships are doing.  This game is dead and stagnant but I'm amused with it so far and I'm not done goofing around with a few things yet.  The map as I've continued to punch holes out for scouts to get through is a wasteland, but with 100 planets that's to be expected.

I really need to restart.  Border world resources were crap, CoP on primary whipping boy blockaded me, and I need to adjust my initial research build, particularly if I'm going to insist on clearing out MK IVs early.

Meh, fuggit, new game.  Btw, the railcannon is OP.  WAY OP.  Also SF ratios need to be looked at.  Getting nearly as many reclaimers as I am bombers when they finally get to me, and killing the reclaimers is like trying to kill a maw, just craptons of HP.

... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 12:50:07 AM »
Do you feel like the Spire Railclusters are OP? I was sort of getting that feeling when I was playing around with them (and of course, the AI decided to unlock them the same game too, so I got to see the other side of this as well...)

Yes.  They're kinda like the maw in some ways, particularly with early fleets.  The damage ratio is right but there's something off about them.  They clean up too easily.  I ran into a couple of MK IVs with my base fleet and my fighter contingent was removed in 3 salvos, the bombers shortly behind them... THAT'S it.

They too easily counter their triangle 'block', as the Railclusters are Polycrystal.  However, with fighters being fragile 'please don't sneeze on me' levels of HP, they fall over dead when they look at the Railcluster.  They're not OP, you just need a powerful anti-polycrystal to tackle them.  This series of games I'm playing for this AAR will almost require me to find that unit, as the Zenith will always apparently get the Railcluster.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 01:09:06 AM »
Do you feel like the Spire Railclusters are OP? I was sort of getting that feeling when I was playing around with them (and of course, the AI decided to unlock them the same game too, so I got to see the other side of this as well...)

Yes.  They're kinda like the maw in some ways, particularly with early fleets.  The damage ratio is right but there's something off about them.  They clean up too easily.  I ran into a couple of MK IVs with my base fleet and my fighter contingent was removed in 3 salvos, the bombers shortly behind them... THAT'S it.

They too easily counter their triangle 'block', as the Railclusters are Polycrystal.  However, with fighters being fragile 'please don't sneeze on me' levels of HP, they fall over dead when they look at the Railcluster.  They're not OP, you just need a powerful anti-polycrystal to tackle them.  This series of games I'm playing for this AAR will almost require me to find that unit, as the Zenith will always apparently get the Railcluster.

I have no problem with the railclusters. Remember that a couple (2) represents .4 of a mkIV cap, and that mopping up a mkI fleet is to be expected. Fighters actually have the most hp out of the triangles; they just get stomped by the underapreciated missile frigates (and their heavy alpha strikes). Those same missile frigs are what I would use to counter the railclusters (alpha from out of range, retreat into transports/off planet).

Zenith shouldn't always get it, sounds like the RNG just hates you.

And as for the mk III-IV planets... that isn't the RNG, but the difficulty level.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 01:26:54 AM »
I have no problem with the railclusters. Remember that a couple (2) represents .4 of a mkIV cap, and that mopping up a mkI fleet is to be expected. Fighters actually have the most hp out of the triangles; they just get stomped by the underapreciated missile frigates (and their heavy alpha strikes). Those same missile frigs are what I would use to counter the railclusters (alpha from out of range, retreat into transports/off planet).
Point, but I've still got a usability problem with fighters.  When I retreat my fleet at about half strength, I've usually got 1/3 cap of bombers, 2/3s frigates, and no fighters.  Special ship is debateable.  Even with larger fleets the fighters always seem to go down first, even mixed in with melee ships and others that the frigates love to eat.  It's something particular about the fighter I've never nailed down.  Also, they're rather powerful in player hands, too, those MK Is last round were a huge edge.  It's not just an AI-hates me thing.

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And as for the mk III-IV planets... that isn't the RNG, but the difficulty level.
Yeah, I know, but usually get I get a *few* MK I/II stepstones to work with.  That's a LOT of MK IV.  The concentration of them for the last two games has been unusual.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2012, 01:35:31 AM »
Wanderer is back. Bitches.
You're going to like the AI home planets.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2012, 04:22:38 AM »
So, new game, decide to give the new Corvettes a go.  Hm, interesting, they build out a bit like the higher end spire ships.  This could be interesting.

Homeworld (Strana) ain't so great position wise, two entries are nearly on top of the CC (maybe two Grav I's out) but I think I can work with it.

Starter Research: Harvester IIs, Minifort, Grav I, and... errr wait.  what.

Spire Corvette I - IV is in my researchables?  I can take these straight to MK IV for ... errr.. 2500/3500/5000?  Interesting.

Very.  Interesting.

I'm gonna leave a bit of wiggle room in my K for now so I can check out what the Corvette needs in more detail.

I have to turn off corvette building until I get the fleet built for now.  They're monstrous soaks and the Mini-Fort damage for half the M+C is worth more for the immediate defenses.

Speed scouting shows me a 4/3 and a 3/3 world next to me, along with a few junkers, 2/0, 0/1, and 1/4.  The 1/4 is Matrix, and that's going to end up as a cluster choke/whipping boy, eventually.  I finally managed to start with no immediate threat MK III/IV worlds.  Awesomesauce.

At 11:00 or so in I turn back on my corvettes for building (they'll be a bit) and head for Poker, the 4/3 world that's also a close WH to the CC, after I deflect the first wave.  About when the first wave hits my first Corvette's available.  I built it directly but I wanted a chance to look over the upgrades for the MK I.

Unlike the actual Spireships, this doesn't tell me what MK I need to reach for what, but it appears MK II modules are the best I can stuff into a MK I Spire Corvette.  Alright, fair.  HBCs will open up a new module line I don't have, and otherwise I need to upgrade FFs, Lasers, Spider Turrets, and/or siege starships.  Well, spiders usually get opened eventually, and I almost always need more FFs, so that'll work.  I usually will crack HBC Is as well, and that'll handle the small and large mount points.  Alright then.

15:45: Poker falls and we begin colonization.  AIP 30.  I upgrade to Corvette IIs to see what these will look like for module choices later.  Construction of those base monstrousities kills my economy.  Since the homeworld is a 4/8 world, I've got a pretty significant metal shortage.  Sadly I need to stop construction on the MK II Corvettes until we get Poker situated with its mini-forts.

21:30: Construction of the MK II Corvettes builds again.  Fleet heads to Nerf Neverending Story and to pop its Warp Gate to remove short-range threat from the HW CC.

AIP 35 at 23:30.  Warp Gate at Neverending Story is removed.

MK II Corvette is finally built, at least one of them.  They can get up to MK III gear on them.  Alright, so next investment is to build out some MK II items for these guys to beef 'em up.  For now they get MK I gear, same as their little brothers.

Hm, I can select everything on the corvette EXCEPT for the FF unit for later scrapping upgrades.  Good to know.

26:15 the fleet prepares to clear off Macross and Matrix.  Macross will be a supply world, Matrix will become the primary whipping boy.  I'm also killing time to 'spread' the waves a bit, as homeworld isn't Warp Gate secure yet.  I'd really like to ARS up some decent speed unit, like Raptors, to deal with the Zombards.

At 30:00 instead of cleaning out Matrix I head for Arrakkis to pop the Warp Gate there.  I want to remove more of the threat from Homeworld if this is going to keep stalling out and not launching a wave here.

Glad I waited a bit.  AIP 40, 229+3 to homeworld.  I unlock Tachyon Is for the Reprocessors.  They tend to float a lot around here apparently. 

Back to backs on Strana (homeworld).  229 + 516.  This should be ugly.  I decide since I've got some spare MC I'll dump some turrets on Homeworld while the fleet takes care of round 1.  20 each of LRM/Sniper/Basic should do for starters.  The reason the second wave was so large comparably was because of Youngling Vultures and 5 AIP.

... Whoops, Savescum back to 30:00.  I flubbed up and forgot to drop a pair of additional FFs over the HW CC... sigh, dumbass.  This time they're headin' for Poker with 203+3.  Well, I guess that works out... and then 670 + 3 1:40 after that.  Yeesh.

230 Cutlass and 150 vultures.  Daaamn.  This won't be pretty, Mil I not withstanding.

Yeah, they carved Poker to PIECES.  Need to refleet.  Defense ended up on Homeworld where we cleaned up what was left.  Eventually getting back to Strana to start rebuilds.  Yeesh, that was a desperate defense.

Alright, 41:00 or so and Strana's back on track, having dealt with waiting threat, and we head for Matrix to drop the hammer on the Warp Gate there for now, and clean it up for when I want to move in later.  There's a CSG here as well, so it's going to attract a bunch of SF attention... and does.  Too much, actually... I run for home as we get overwhelmed.  Did a decent cleanout of the enemy though.  Another run or two will get us where it needs to be.

I've yet to build any starships besides the corvettes, unfortunately.  I haven't had the econ up to strength between rebuilds.  I am however starting to get Crystal Heavy so I pop some Raid SSs into the queue while I hit Matrix again.  This should invite the SF back to play, too, I hope.

The Warp Gate on Matrix goes down 47:00'ish, only one more to go before HW is safe and all traffic is sent to Poker for the time being.  A massive brawl broke out on Matrix, forcing me to hunt down 30+ Zombards with the SF group.  About 35 reclaimers chased me off the planet again.  Still not done with the SF reinforcements I see.

462+2 to Poker at 52:30.  Erps, guess I need to get over there.

At 57:00 Macross falls to the Humans.  AIP is now at 66, and the wave entry is Poker, for the moment... move that eventually.  I have 7,500 worth of K to use and another 3000 K coming in.  Very nice.

532+2 to Poker at 59:30.  Fleet heads over to protect, even though Macross is still constructing.

1:03:00 Poker fell again.  Limited defenses, this was expected.  Saddening, but expected.  Still 175 ships left too.  That was a LOT of autobombs and Shredder with polarizer support.  Ow.

1:08... time to go get my Whippin' Boy.  HERE BOY!  C'mere now!  It's timez youse gotz yer whippins!

1:13.  Still trying to get the whipping boy up, and 834+2 head for Matrix.  Here we go! (luckily the fleet's hangin' ten...)

1:18... We block the wave, but barely.  All the turrets that were building were basically just cannon fodder the fleet hid behind.  A very small group of Human Rebels joined in and were almost immediately wiped out when they hit the massive frigate fleet.

1:23.  I've got over 12,000 in K right now and I'm trying very hard not to go to Harvester III just as an experiment.  It's very difficult to resist when my econ is in famine mode and I want to lock Poker out of the wave invasions.

1:34.  A nasty wave came into Matrix while the whipping boy was still rebuilding from the last defense, and still not operational.  That was deflected by the skin of my teeth and some selective powering down of certain things to allow other things to build out.  The whipping boy is finally fully operational except for mini-forts.  Back to rebuilding fleet and trying to pop the Gate/Eye on Nero's Fiddle, which is the last 'off Whipping Boy' gate to pop that feeds into Poker.

I also open up HBC Is for giggles.  That's a monster on the corvettes.  208k damage/7 seconds vs. 32k /8 on the siege cannon module.  AoE or straightline damage.  Hmmm.

1:39.  Of course, now that Matrix is up and I'm nearly in a position to finally get the warp gate off Poker... Poker gets a 1k wave.

Let's see... Carrier with 44 in it, 220 Vultures, 163 Frigates, 223 Fighters, 272 Cutlass, and 119 Bombers.  Oh nice.

Carrier pop spawns up more Cutlass.  Not sure that was a worthy trade... but there's almost no chance in hell Poker's going to hold.  I'm just going to try to keep the fleet alive.

Had to savescum, and the last autosave is while the wave was set to come to Poker.  Oddly, it's telling me AI 1 enemy Ships, 2 Starships to Poker in 00:39.  Attaching save.  It corrects to 1,044 ships eventually.  Just wierd.

confirmed it did it on reload, it's persistant for that save.

Hm, need to come up with a different plan for the defense though.  I've got a pattern that kind of works but apparently two of my FFs on the homeworld went AWOL.  Heh... apparently going in circles works.. interesting.  I was able to kite the majority of their fleet around Poker. 

1:50.  Ugh, I need to pay more attention sometimes.  Nero's Fiddle is packin' not one but TWO Spireshield Guardposts with its AI Eye.  I'll need Bombercraft to deal with this, as well as raids strong enough to clear out the under-guardians.  This'll take either some time or ingenuity, and I have neither at this point.  Time for the Nyquil to actually function... I hope.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 09:41:15 AM »
On a random personal side note: I'm getting rather sick of cough drops, but they're a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
Is it for cough prevention or topical anesthesia on the throat?  If the latter, have you tried those little spearmint candies from the grocery store (they look like peppermints, like $1 or $2 for a bag of about 60)?  I used to chain-pop cough drops if I had a really bad sore throat but I've found the spearmints actually do a better job of lowering the soreness and I don't get sick of them (and eventually chain-popping menthol has consequences).  Gotta watch the impact on the teeth, of course, but that's not difficult to mitigate (though I imagine it's a different story if one were a diabetic).

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RNG hate me much?
Just business.

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Hey!  The new mini-forts gather scout intel.  Keith finally got me my pickets!
Overkill-for-role much?  This fully armed and operational... recon station.

But glad it helps :)  Helps annoy the AI, anyhow.

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I really need to restart.
May I suggest the Tackle Drone Launcher as your next bonus ship?  It has enormous latent cheese potential.

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Also SF ratios need to be looked at.  Getting nearly as many reclaimers as I am bombers when they finally get to me, and killing the reclaimers is like trying to kill a maw, just craptons of HP.
The SF doesn't do strait-schizo distribution, fyi.  And it does pay according to the normal strength ratios.  If you want to see the math, advanced-logging will show the allocations in the special forces logs.

So, new game, decide to give the new Corvettes a go.
Ah, not a bad choice either.  Not as cheesy as the TDL's, but probably better for busting through some of those tough combat situations.

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Spire Corvette I - IV is in my researchables?
Yep, the advanced factory doesn't apply since it's a "bonus starship" (which is one reason we haven't done bonus starships before, but what the hay, we'll give it a shot).  So MkIVs are available out of the gate, but you have to unlock them individually from MkIIIs.  This makes the Corvettes somewhat stronger if you're not thinking you can get/hold and advfact.  If you actually want to spend that much K, at least.

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Hm, I can select everything on the corvette EXCEPT for the FF unit for later scrapping upgrades.  Good to know.
Ah, yea, the central position of all shields can be an issue there.  But you don't have to select them that way to replace, just:

1) Select corvette(s)
2) Press Ctrl+M (sends you to ship design screen)
3) Make desired module changes
4) Click "Apply to selection" and confirm
5) It will scrap the modules in the slots you changed, and queue up the replacements, and actually (in my experience) do a pretty good job of making sure the right modules go in the right slots (you wouldn't believe how dense those yard workers can be).

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1:08... time to go get my Whippin' Boy.  HERE BOY!  C'mere now!  It's timez youse gotz yer whippins!
I thought that was the AI's line ;)

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I also open up HBC Is for giggles.  That's a monster on the corvettes.  208k damage/7 seconds vs. 32k /8 on the siege cannon module.  AoE or straightline damage.  Hmmm.
It depends on what you want to be good at; the siege cannon's 10x multiplier against forcefields (among other heavy things) is brutal, in addition to the special under-forcefield splash.  But the HBC is usually much more effective for General Purpose Mayhem.

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Had to savescum, and the last autosave is while the wave was set to come to Poker.  Oddly, it's telling me AI 1 enemy Ships, 2 Starships to Poker in 00:39.  Attaching save.  It corrects to 1,044 ships eventually.  Just wierd.

confirmed it did it on reload, it's persistant for that save.
Interesting, will take a look, thanks.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 10:00:55 AM »
May I suggest the Tackle Drone Launcher as your next bonus ship?  It has enormous latent cheese potential.

Oh, does it ever.

I got these from my first ARS, a cap of Mk I and II takes 120 AI fleet ships out of engagement range every salvo.

Combined with a Mil Command station, even 500 fleet ships are not a threat.

Starships on the other hand.....

So, new game, decide to give the new Corvettes a go.

Oh, another Corvette adherent!

These were my starting ship in my current game and I'm quite liking them. I find you have to treat them as Starships rather then Fleet Ships however, they are expensive like starships but have the health of starships also (as long as you mount at least one FF module).

Anyways, welcome back. Always fun to read different peoples take on the game.  :)

D.

Offline LordSloth

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »
May I suggest a neinzul enclave starship for your fighter woes? There's a version unlocked from the start, and a merc version with some more potency. While frigates and bomber production can drag on forever w/o engies, pumping out a pair of mk1 fighters every two seconds can help you keep your numbers up if you have any prolonged engagements. Won't of course help with huge threatballs, but it's only 40K metal and 40K crystal to get a pair out, and radar dampening should help keep you from having to re-invest.

I'm a big fan of fighters as implemented right now - especially with all the guardians moved to medium hull. That said, among the starting triangle they are particularly vulnerable to the alphastrike being first-in and outranged by their counter.  Since the rebalance, I often weight my build queue 5:1:1 or 10:1:1 in favor of fighters, and if they fill up first, pull off half for some tachyon guardian raiding or whatever. Of course, that's when they're not in a larger strike blob. Of course, I don't have to worry about ticking of 9.6 level system guardians and defense forces.

...I even sometimes unlock mark 3s before mark2 bombers or advanced factories, I like them that much. That's only in co-op, however.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 11:47:11 AM by LordSloth »

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2012, 02:37:27 PM »
Is it for cough prevention or topical anesthesia on the throat?  If the latter, have you tried those little spearmint candies from the grocery store (they look like peppermints, like $1 or $2 for a bag of about 60)? 
Well, one kinda feeds the other, but yeah, basically.  Also to help keep all the drip moving downwards instead of 'hanging around'.  Halls are my friend.  I'll give 'er a go though, no reason not to try it out, thanks.


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Hey!  The new mini-forts gather scout intel.  Keith finally got me my pickets!
Overkill-for-role much?  This fully armed and operational... recon station.
They're pretty decent but they're not _that_ badass.  A handful of MK III Guardians can punch their way past two of em with ease.

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I really need to restart.
May I suggest the Tackle Drone Launcher as your next bonus ship?  It has enormous latent cheese potential.
Trying to save those for a rainy day when I need a cheesy grin on my face.  :)

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The SF doesn't do strait-schizo distribution, fyi.  And it does pay according to the normal strength ratios.  If you want to see the math, advanced-logging will show the allocations in the special forces logs.
So, I'm just seeing odd distribution.  It might be the reclaimer strength price is off.  We'll see.  They're not horribly dangerous in their own right, they just tank for the rest of the fleet while doing reasonable damage themselves, in pack sizes not achievable by the player.

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Yep, the advanced factory doesn't apply since it's a "bonus starship" (which is one reason we haven't done bonus starships before, but what the hay, we'll give it a shot).  So MkIVs are available out of the gate, but you have to unlock them individually from MkIIIs.
Well, this should be an interesting experiment then.  Most of the power is in the modules however, so we'll have to see where that really ends up.

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This makes the Corvettes somewhat stronger if you're not thinking you can get/hold and advfact.  If you actually want to spend that much K, at least.
Yeah, they are rather expensive to get to IV, another planet worth. 2500,3500,5000 K.  No biggie tho', probably worth it.

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Ah, yea, the central position of all shields can be an issue there.  But you don't have to select them that way to replace, just:

1) Select corvette(s)
2) Press Ctrl+M (sends you to ship design screen)
3) Make desired module changes
4) Click "Apply to selection" and confirm
5) It will scrap the modules in the slots you changed, and queue up the replacements, and actually (in my experience) do a pretty good job of making sure the right modules go in the right slots (you wouldn't believe how dense those yard workers can be).
SHAWEET.  Thanks.  Didn't know this was even an option!

... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2012, 02:39:56 PM »
May I suggest a neinzul enclave starship for your fighter woes? There's a version unlocked from the start, and a merc version with some more potency.
I'd been thinking about including them in with the Spire Corvettes actually, but finances weren't really up for heavy experimentation.  Bringing out the drones + fighter replacement when I've got a small starship team already in use probably wouldn't hurt any.  I'm a little concerned about them sometimes as the enclave ships aren't all that sturdy in my recollection but I'll probably drag a few out here eventually.  Good suggestion, however. :)
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2012, 04:46:29 PM »
Score another one for the AI!

(though the AI's Zenith Reprocessors going after your home settlements is a disturbing bit of emergent imagery)

It's the closest thing to bacon the AI could get on short notice.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Oh. Dear. Lord.
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2012, 07:05:14 PM »
So, nice big ol' whipping boy while I work down the Eye/Gate on Nero's Fiddle, and the AI has sent two waves against Poker while I'm working on the two Spireshield guardposts in Nero's.  920 and another coming at 2:14 with 626.  The second wave even whacked my two of Corvette Is, and the fleet is obliterated.  I'd almost had Nero's down, too.

I've rebuilt my Bomber Is and Raid Is so they're going to try to finish the job so I can start taking the attacks on the WB.

2:23.  The last outer gate falls on Nero's Fiddle, and the sandpaper the shield to death team comes home.  Matrix's whipping boy is now the only way in.  Maybe I can get something done now.  AIP is 90, 3 worlds owned, 11,000 K available.

Attached below is a screenshot of the map in its current state.

First Max-time announces for 2:28, 1300 ships or so.  Defenses went reasonably well with fleet support since they came in the wrong wormhole.  Need to correct for that.  Next fight, Skye, for a quick gate pop.

AIP 96, Skye's Gate is down.  That'll stop that from happening.  Pah.

I finally get around to opening up Scout IIs, 10,500 K available.  I get some scouting done in the back of the cluster, only thing of significant interest back there is a CoP.  There's two Data Centers down near the south entry to the cluster, off Sox.  Sox itself is a MK III world, not much of a threat in its own right, and Argyle and Hotstar both have DCs I'd like to raid.

Misery's a MK IV and getting through that and its Fort II might be a bit much but there's no Eye so it's not horrible.  Definately think Sox is the next target.  I'll highway Neverending Story and Misery to make a road to Sox, grab that (4/2 world, not bad) and setup the second whipping boy.  It'll also give me a jump point to get deeper into the south cluster.

I think I need some additional firepower for the primary fleet.  I opened up FF IIs a while back for additional FF's available as well as beefing up the corvettes, however if I'm reading this right researching Spiders should give me max mark Rail Guns for them no matter the mark.  Also, I definately want some Bomber IIs.  Time to spend some K.

2:40 a 645 ship wave is heading for Matrix.  Time to see if the Whipping Boy can stand on its own.  The Railgun upgrade worked nicely, too, my Corvette II's are mounting MK III Railguns.  Matrix held rather nicely, very little threat escaping as well.  Excellent, and that's without me dropping in a ton of Spider.  I figure I'll hold off on that for Sox.

At ~3:00 the MK II waves hit Matrix for ~1,300 ships.  It couldn't hold without the fleet.  Something needs to be adjusted.  I add in 50 tractors or so at irregular spacing and unlock EMP Mines.  And line placement is still awesome.

3:15: 2000 ship CPA announces.  This should get ugly, my econ's been famine for a bit here, ever since I fouled up and lost the entire bomber squadron trying to whack the fortress in my way to Sox.

Perfectly timed, a 1.5k wave is heading for Matrix about 20 seconds after the CPA releases.  This is going to get wild and woolly.

748 MK II, 560 MK I, 104 MK III, and 604 MK II from strategic Reserve.  Yeeehaw.

... or not.  Savescum.  HW CC went down even doing a pull back defense at the wormhole with what was left of the primary fleet.


Savescum to Autosave at 6:33 to the CPA.  I'd harassed the MK IV going into this and it had weakened me, I'll avoid that until I clear the CPA this time.  980 Vultures was tough to deal with as well as a wave.  For the first time in a long time, I +10 the speed meter, and I also let the M/C bank out a bit since it JUSt got off the floor.  I'm guessing I'll need it.

Alright, apparently the internal timer is locked into sending these side by side.  Ugh. 1,383 this time to Matrix. 
776 IIs, 587 Is, 653 II from the reserve this time.

Hm, still no joy.  1,208 ships sitting on the homeworld.  That double-tap of Wave + CPA is crippling me.  I even ambushed a good 500+ of them in a different system but once they break Poker with the massive wave they just roll me.

Need to experiment a bit here.  I'll be back.

... and then we'll have cake.