Author Topic: First Serious 10/10 attempt  (Read 2578 times)

Offline zoutzakje

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2012, 06:55:58 AM »
I don't mind, I'm used to topics changing on this forum :P I'll just post more when I got more. either this report will be my doom report and otherwise the next most likely lol.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2012, 09:29:06 AM »
Yea, the initial d10 waves are too small now.  It's a tricky thing, though: if you don't have auto-AIP on, and there isn't anything skewing the first wave to be harder than the second wave, there are basically two possibilities:

1) The first wave is survivable, motivating you to not increase AIP at all for a long time until you build up.

or

2) The first wave is not survivable, and the game is over.


Of course, there is a spectrum between those two where it's fundamentally all 1) , but feels different psychologically because you're having to fight and scrape to survive but can somehow manage it.  And I think what we're targeting is the harder end of that spectrum.  You'll still wind up playing a 0-AIP game for a while if you want to survive, but I'm not sure that's avoidable on 10/10.

Anyway, what I'm thinking is having Diff 10 games start with 20 or even 30 AIP instead of 10.  That's kind of like the old wave size floor but it's more transparent.  Thoughts?
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2012, 10:59:30 AM »
having dif 10 start at 20 AIP probably would do the trick. 30 would be too hard. Waves of 300-400 mk II ships are impossible to stop in the first 7 mins of the game.
Not that any of this really matters, because completing a 10/10 wave type AI game is not gonna work out anyways. Most normal people don't play on 10/10 :P

Offline Wanderer

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2012, 01:26:10 PM »
Anyway, what I'm thinking is having Diff 10 games start with 20 or even 30 AIP instead of 10.  That's kind of like the old wave size floor but it's more transparent.  Thoughts?

Is it possible to have the floor 'float' on its own, back to its old value?  Say internally increase by 1/minute or two back to the original floors?  This way it builds instead of lands on you like a ton of bricks?  The biggest problem was time, you just didn't have enough.   A floor that floats up to heavy handed would solve the problem nicely and bring back the 'fierceness' of early waves.

And yes, I realize the normal game (for most people) isn't on 10/10.  But since that's the end of the 9-10 spectrum the same concepts apply to the 'lighter' matches.  MK I vs. MK II between 9.8 and 10.0 is almost enough of a difference to end you in early game.  I, however, simply can't resist the challenge, even if I do have a 9/9 'real' game going to enjoy myself with.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2012, 02:34:50 PM »
Is it possible to have the floor 'float' on its own, back to its old value?  Say internally increase by 1/minute or two back to the original floors?  This way it builds instead of lands on you like a ton of bricks?  The biggest problem was time, you just didn't have enough.   A floor that floats up to heavy handed would solve the problem nicely and bring back the 'fierceness' of early waves.
I thought of doing something like that, but it seems like a very opaque thing for the player.  "Why are my wave sizes increasing even though AIP has not increased?", etc.

Basically the transparent equivalent of what you're describing is auto-aip-increase.  The game does actually recommend playing with some auto-aip (1 per 5 minutes, iirc), and basically if a player has said "no auto-aip" we don't want to sneak a little of it in through the back door while they're not looking :)  It's an option that reduces the challenge of the game, basically, and sometimes options like that open up strange strategies.

That said, what you're asking for is basically auto-aip that stops going after a certain point, which is a key distinction.  That could be doable, if that would help.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:56:47 PM by keith.lamothe »
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2012, 03:46:51 PM »
1 AIP/5 seconds would basically be unwinnable probably as early at 3/3 :) .  I think 1 AIP/30 minutes is the default recommendation and I find it is a good setting to remind me to keep things moving without really impacting the game.  Difficulty 10 could require that minimum setting though.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2012, 03:59:34 PM »
1 AIP/5 seconds would basically be unwinnable probably as early at 3/3 :) .
Hahaha.  Yes.  I've been knee deep in per-second calculations all day; does it show?

Quote
Difficulty 10 could require that minimum setting though.
Oh, I wouldn't do that any more than I would require not using the no-waves option, etc.  If someone _wants_ to play diff 10 with no-auto-aip I have no intention of stopping them.  Just wanted to point out that the game is intended to be played with at least some auto-aip in basically the same sense that it is intended to be played with at least some waves: it's valid to play without them, but it may make some strange strategies possible, etc.
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Offline zoutzakje

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2012, 04:23:55 PM »
I actually play with no AIP increase over time very often. 1 AIP per 30 mins really doesn't make a big difference in a 10 hour game, but it's just my preference I guess. I don't like AIP increasing without me doing anything to trigger it.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: First Serious 10/10 attempt
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2012, 06:00:38 PM »
Basically the transparent equivalent of what you're describing is auto-aip-increase.  The game does actually recommend playing with some auto-aip (1 per 5 minutes, iirc), and basically if a player has said "no auto-aip" we don't want to sneak a little of it in through the back door while they're not looking :)  It's an option that reduces the challenge of the game, basically, and sometimes options like that open up strange strategies.

Not exactly, because the floor is an independent value of AIP.  If the float revs up to 100 and I'm taking on 1 world AIP waves, taking over a world won't cause yet another boost to 50, it'll just catch me up to where the floor went.  I was more thinking along those lines, where you get an overwhelming need eventually to get off your butt and go do something. :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 04:55:43 AM by GUDare »
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