Author Topic: The 10/10 Challenge  (Read 2924 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2012, 09:12:38 AM »
And I wanted to try the taser on Hybrids MkII
I assume you mean Riot IIs :)

Quote
Now, I've had to save scum a wave of Spire Stealth Battleships several times now. There's only 40 of them in the wave but I just can't kill them fast enough, even with my entire fleet there. Any tips for these guys?
They're tricky.  But they're not immune to tractors, ffs, or grav, so standard cc should work.  But they are immune to para.  For simply burning them down: Bombers get a 6x multiplier against them.  Raid Starships get 4x.  Laser turrets get 2.4x.  And a variety of bonus types can hurt them too.

Quote
3rd edit: WTF? Ummm, what are the mechanics for ships turning loose? I just had a whole bunch of ships join in on a wave that were posted in an adjacent system without them showing on the threat meter. That should happen?

The system does have a very high number of ships as I've been ignoring it for quite a while but I was not aware of a mechanic that just threw ships at you without warning. It wasn't a CPA, they didn't show on the threat, I have not touched the system for 40+ minutes game time, any ideas why they did that?

Erg, that's a game over. 400 ships with no warning out of an undefended wormhole? ouch.  :'(

4th edit: Just reloaded my save and did not get these mystery ships breaking loose and attacking so I'm not sure what happened. Would still like a current list of ship attack mechanics however.

Waves
CPA
Ships broken loose on the threat meter.
High Population systems start on the barracks and carriers.
Anything else?
I can't think of anything else that would be doing it, but it's possible it was the population cap because that gets smaller on high difficulty.  If you see it again and get a save where it reproduces, I'll be happy to take a look.

10/10 continues to smash people, all is well :)
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2012, 09:38:19 AM »
You did have a scout in there, right?  I'm assuming you did.  But every once in awhile I forgot to put one somewhere and no scout means threat doesn't show up on Detect Threat.  That has bitten me once or twice.

Offline Diazo

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2012, 09:50:29 AM »
I've been reading all these 10/10 attempts and they sound very interesting and challenging... I'm itching to try one out soon as well with my own strategies. I've noticed that dif 7 and 8 aren't to much of a challenge anymore (putting aside the fact that I got stomped by the new hybrid plot, but I'm not planning to play with those in a dif 10 game anyway), even the harder AI types die by my hand. I figure it's time to try something new.
Not sure if I should write an AAR about it though.... it's so time consuming :P

Hehe. Have fun trying it, even it's just trying to take a second system. 10/10 is a seriously different game.

And this AAR does not take me that much time, although it is more a place for me to share my thoughts on my attempts then a real AAR.

You did have a scout in there, right?  I'm assuming you did.  But every once in awhile I forgot to put one somewhere and no scout means threat doesn't show up on Detect Threat.  That has bitten me once or twice.

Yes, I had a scout in the system. Upon reloading there were roughly 1k ships in the system, with the save I loaded being 5 to 10 mins before the ships breaking loose in the previous attempt. Also, are you sure about the threat not showing on the total threat meter? I know that without a scout you can't see which system the threat is in when you mouse over the threat meter, but total threat shows total threat does it not?


3rd edit: WTF? Ummm, what are the mechanics for ships turning loose? I just had a whole bunch of ships join in on a wave that were posted in an adjacent system without them showing on the threat meter. That should happen?

The system does have a very high number of ships as I've been ignoring it for quite a while but I was not aware of a mechanic that just threw ships at you without warning. It wasn't a CPA, they didn't show on the threat, I have not touched the system for 40+ minutes game time, any ideas why they did that?

Erg, that's a game over. 400 ships with no warning out of an undefended wormhole? ouch.  :'(

4th edit: Just reloaded my save and did not get these mystery ships breaking loose and attacking so I'm not sure what happened. Would still like a current list of ship attack mechanics however.

Waves
CPA
Ships broken loose on the threat meter.
High Population systems start on the barracks and carriers.
Anything else?
I can't think of anything else that would be doing it, but it's possible it was the population cap because that gets smaller on high difficulty.  If you see it again and get a save where it reproduces, I'll be happy to take a look.

10/10 continues to smash people, all is well :)
I'll experiment some more tonight and see if I can see what's triggering it. Just wanted to confirm something new had not been added in the time I was away.

And yes, 10/10 continues to smash me like a pumpkin after halloween.   ;D

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2012, 10:01:30 AM »
Also, are you sure about the threat not showing on the total threat meter? I know that without a scout you can't see which system the threat is in when you mouse over the threat meter, but total threat shows total threat does it not?
Indeed, it shows total threat regardless of scouting.  There are some things like hybrids that don't show up in the total, but that's because they aren't necessarily going to come at you at the next opportunity, etc.
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2012, 10:21:13 AM »
No, I was talking about Detect Threat on the galaxy map.  That's the best way to see where threat is and watch it move around in real-time.  But you need scouts to see threat in individual systems.  But Keith is correct, total threat doesn't require scouts.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2012, 08:22:33 PM »
Not sure if I should write an AAR about it though.... it's so time consuming :P

That they are, but I find it worthwhile.  Both to review my own strategies and to have input from others.  If nothing else, hopefully a few of them will make their way into newbie's hands as they try to work out their own way of playing.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Diazo

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 10:08:35 PM »
Not sure if I should write an AAR about it though.... it's so time consuming :P

That they are, but I find it worthwhile.  Both to review my own strategies and to have input from others.  If nothing else, hopefully a few of them will make their way into newbie's hands as they try to work out their own way of playing.

Ya, I'm thinking my next game I'll do up a full AAR. I think my current game is a loss, I've put myself into a pretty big hole.

Speaking of that, log for Tuesday evening.

Gametime 2:19

As mentioned, I find myself in something of a hole. I went and unlocked fortresses before I had enough systems to give me the needed resources to support them so I sat there with my resources flatlined for quite a while not expanding.

All my adjacent systems have 800+ AI ships in them now and I'm not in a very secure position. I find I'm having to lighting missile waves to survive and that's driving my AIP up also. Going have to suck up the reduced efficency on my energy reactors and fortify massively to survive the counter attack that will come as soon as I stick my head in an AI system, which means it will be all that much bigger when it hits.

I'm not ready to give up on this game yet so let's see where I can take this.

1st edit, gametime 2:54
Hmmm. How do ships get loose to become threat? I'm watching the threat meter slowly creep upwards with no reason that I can tell from any action on my part. Do high population systems release some of their ships as threat?

I'm still trying to dig myself out of this hole I'm in....

2nd edit, gametime 3:07

There's something wierd going on here. I had 300 ships loose on threat sitting on the other side of a warp point. As the defences on the other side of that warp point are iffy, I lighting missile them to get my threat back down.

From a different system that only had 1 ship on the threat meter (scout is present) a 530 strong wave just jumped through to ruin my day. No warnings, I have not touched that system for ages and I have no clue what's caused this.

Any ideas?


4th edit, gametime: done for the night

Alright, this ships just appearing thing is screwing me up. I'm already playing so far beyond the edge in this game I just can't handle these ships popping up out of nowhere.
I've attached a save that I think will show what's going on. If you run the save note that Mirtusara has a threat of 2. Run forward until shortly after the wave of fighters arrives, the ships loose on threat will warp in to support. However, from Mirtusara, 50 ships arrive. I can't figure out where those extra ships are coming from.

Note that I consider the attached save an impossible situation. Take a look if you want but don't expect to survive more then a few minutes.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 11:40:14 PM by Dazio »

Offline Wanderer

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 11:40:56 PM »
1st edit, gametime 2:54
Hmmm. How do ships get loose to become threat? I'm watching the threat meter slowly creep upwards with no reason that I can tell from any action on my part. Do high population systems release some of their ships as threat?
Yep, it's called Border Aggression.  At 10 calculation is... 3300 - AIP

http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Border_Aggression#Defending_Against_Border_Aggression

You shouldn't be hitting that though.  It's possible to release threat via raids and the like, simply annoying them.  You may also be getting threat from Special Forces who end up not drifting into your system and waiting... I'm not sure if that mechanic exists but it seems like it sometimes.


Quote
From a different system that only had 1 ship on the threat meter (scout is present) a 530 strong wave just jumped through to ruin my day. No warnings, I have not touched that system for ages and I have no clue what's caused this.

Any ideas?
Possibly from an AIP jump but I wouldn't see 530 suddenly loosing themselves from a few missiles.  That sounds... odd.  You don't have unannounced waves or something similar turned on, do you?
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline zoutzakje

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2012, 08:10:02 AM »
Not sure if I should write an AAR about it though.... it's so time consuming :P

That they are, but I find it worthwhile.  Both to review my own strategies and to have input from others.  If nothing else, hopefully a few of them will make their way into newbie's hands as they try to work out their own way of playing.

yeah allright, think I'll write one too. I'm curious to find out how far I can get with my own strategies on a 10/10 vanilla game

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2012, 09:42:41 AM »
Alright, this ships just appearing thing is screwing me up. I'm already playing so far beyond the edge in this game I just can't handle these ships popping up out of nowhere.
I've attached a save that I think will show what's going on. If you run the save note that Mirtusara has a threat of 2. Run forward until shortly after the wave of fighters arrives, the ships loose on threat will warp in to support. However, from Mirtusara, 50 ships arrive. I can't figure out where those extra ships are coming from.

Note that I consider the attached save an impossible situation. Take a look if you want but don't expect to survive more then a few minutes.
Thanks for the save, will take a look :)

It sounds like either border aggression or an the unannounced-wave toggle was on in the lobby, but neither sounds likely.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2012, 10:38:53 PM »
And this game is done.

The number of AI ships in the surrounding systems has just gotten too high, as soon as I poke my head into a system threat jumps by at least 200.

Those ships then wait until the next wave and catch me in a pincer attack.

I've been slogging through by nuking waves with lighting missiles but I'm at 20 missiles used already and that's too much AIP for no territory gain.

I think my biggest mistake was unlocking fortresses this early. That slowed me down too much too soon and I'm now surrounded by systems I can't even dent with my current fleet.

I'm going to have one last hurrah with this save game and EMP missile spam and just ignore the AIP costs, just want to see what happens.

Offline dotjd

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Re: The 10/10 Challenge
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2012, 10:42:57 AM »
A hint for future 10/10 challenges that I am using in my personal attempt: fight vs Tank AIs.  They have half-size waves and, even more importantly, get only 1/3rd as many reinforcements.