Author Topic: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider  (Read 5810 times)

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2012, 01:59:40 AM »
Decided not to surrender. Surrender is for people who don't have warheads.

Knocked out the D CSG.
Captured the exp. speed drone fabricator.
Repelled 9000 ship mkIV wave. Regen Golem lost.
Rebuilt fleet.
Repelled 2000 ship mkV wave.
Exos at 50% (when these arrive I'm dead)
Took Milkman's Lair for Widow and stepping stone.

Endgame:

Gathered entire fleet.
Neutered first HW. (the one with the cpa post).
CPA and exos will both arrive in about 10 minutes.
Moved fleet to Hard Vaccuum, repaired it, and built warheads and cloakers.
Popped first HW with jumpships.
Moved entire fleet to next to the last HW.
Nuked the planet.
Send in the fleet.
Win. Techno Dancer, Peeled and Roasted.

It was close. My fleet (which at this point was exactly one armored golem) lasted about 2 seconds avenger time. Also, if the exo had spawned a Mothership, I would have lost.

Cloaked warheads are my new best friend.

Screenshots:

« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 04:03:00 AM by Faulty Logic »
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2012, 02:54:04 AM »
Pfff trololol.. I thought 10/10 was buffed :D
Imma wait for the next patch and try 10/10 myself.
ps. gj. Was Technologist Raider hard? Did the waves always have something "nasty" (like immune to forcefields?)?
pss. oh cool. just downloaded the new patch after writing that^^ I think I'll start the game today. Since 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider has been defeated now I'll try something different.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 03:09:11 AM by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2012, 03:04:00 AM »
Tech Raider didn't have any immune-to-ff unlocks (thank the RNG), but was quite nasty throughout the game, especially very early (first wave mkIII raid starship). It was certainly the more challenging of the two.

Thanks, and good luck.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2012, 10:26:31 AM »
I thought 10/10 was buffed :D
Yea, this is getting ridiculous ;)

I think the 5.050 changes to golems/spirecraft exos would have made a difference, but something is odd when 9000 MkIV ships can't break through.

Of course, if this is what you did to Core/Technologist, I shudder to think what would have befallen the AI on sane AI Types.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2012, 10:30:14 AM »
Trying to figure out how you pulled this off.

The first, and most important factor, are your "MAD SKILLZ", and that should not be underestimated as a contributing factor. ;)
Second, is I reviewed the Mk. based wave multipliers
Code: [Select]
1 1.5
2 0.9
3 0.7
4 0.6
5 0.5

Now, thanks to the linearization of fleet ship types, we can compute the "expected relative strength" by simply multipying the columns together, which yeilds

Code: [Select]
1 1.5 1.5
2 0.9 1.8
3 0.7 2.1
4 0.6 2.4
5 0.5 2.5

That seems reasonable, though it may need some adjustment.

Then I realized that The Core gets a .5 penalty to wave and .3 to reinforcement numbers. Is that applied on top of the Mk. V wave and reinforcement penalty? If so, that would actually make The Core much easier. In fact, the relative expected strength would be 1.25 (2.5 * .5), which is LESS expected firepower than normal AIs Mk. I waves. True, it isn't quite that simple, due to factors like centralization of firepower and the immunities Mk. V ships get, but still that may need to be looked at.

Three, the map type, spokes, is a pretty trivially chokepointable map type, something it seems that was key for this victory.


Also, lol, won with only a Armored golem (and your homeworld, of course) left in your name.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 08:02:50 PM by TechSY730 »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2012, 10:51:41 AM »
Second, is I reviewed the Mk. based wave multipliers
Code: [Select]
1 1.5
2 0.9
3 0.7
4 0.6
5 0.5
Yea, I've been thinking about removing the rule where fleet ship cap scales down with mk; it doesn't do that for starships or turrets or whatever.  And if the "mark mixing" logic used on 9+ now instead of bumping waves up an entire tech level all at once were used on all difficulties instead it would help prevent that feeling of the transition from I to II or II to III being too harsh (which is one reason for those wave-specific multipliers above).

It would make the higher marks more useful to humans too, of course; and really things are balanced with the idea that a cap of MkX is X times as good as a cap of Mk1, which isn't really the case right now.
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2012, 11:15:12 AM »
Can I recommend this mantis issue be considered if you are already going to be messing with ship caps on everything?

Quote
Make most base ship caps a multiple of 8 to fix ultra-low ship cap rounding errors skewing balance

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2012, 11:37:27 AM »
Can I recommend this mantis issue be considered if you are already going to be messing with ship caps on everything?

Quote
Make most base ship caps a multiple of 8 to fix ultra-low ship cap rounding errors skewing balance
I would like to address that too but it's not actually directly related: there are literally some multipliers defined in the code for the various mark levels, and I wouldn't have to touch the individual caps at all.  Just set those 10 multipliers (5 for caps, 5 for wave multipliers) all to 1 (or 1.5 for waves since that's what mkIs have for waves, dunno).

Making all caps multiples of 8 would involve a lot of per-type attention.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2012, 12:13:06 PM »
He started game with 5.045 patch so was the whole game patch 5.045?
Oh and may I take a look at the save file?. Would like to "study" it.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 12:32:10 PM by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2012, 12:22:11 PM »
He started game with 5.045 patch so was the whole game patch 5.045?

Quote
From Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
Updated to latest version, then continued.
That would be 5.046, which had the 10/10 buffs; 5.047 didn't have any AI buffs, 5.048 and 5.049 were hotfixes, and 5.050 was last night.
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2012, 12:59:06 PM »
Next buff should be pretty huge, 66% more ships in waves on 10/10 (assuming Mark II ships in the wave).  Against a Core it would actually be 200% more Mark V ships :o !

Offline _K_

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2012, 03:37:17 PM »
Uh, as i see you had a number of systems and didn't do much gate raiding. Which means you couldnt just put all of your defences on some chokepoint.

So, how did you actually manage to defend against those massive waves coming to your systems?

Offline Wanderer

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2012, 03:52:43 PM »
Congratulations on the win, deftly done.  Once you guys stop beating the stones out of the AI with the superweapons I'll have to try out a 10/10 with 'em, just to see what's happened. :)
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2012, 04:07:37 PM »
Next buff should be pretty huge, 66% more ships in waves on 10/10 (assuming Mark II ships in the wave).  Against a Core it would actually be 200% more Mark V ships :o !
Lets not buff anything before we see the save file.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 04:29:37 PM by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10/10 The Core/Tech Raider
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2012, 04:22:03 PM »
Next buff should be pretty huge, 66% more ships in waves on 10/10 (assuming Mark II ships in the wave).  Against a Core it would actually be 200% more Mark V ships :o !
Lets not buff anything before we see the save file.
Removing the cap-scaling of higher mark fleet ships isn't mainly about buffing the AI (though it does that), it's about making fleet ships easier to balance vs other stuff that doesn't have that scaling (turrets, starships, etc).

Anyway, not planning on doing it today or definitely planning to do it at all, anyway ;)
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