Author Topic: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong  (Read 30364 times)

Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2014, 01:57:47 pm »
MSDs are always fun. Now if only they were capable of cloaking while producing units, and were EMP immune...

Keith I broadly agree with what you're proposing. However I'd still have a couple of minute timer in there personally, just so it's not too horrifically misanthropoic. Sometimes the only thing saving you is the 30 seconds the threat spend cleaning up all the turrets on a recently popped world.

Now thanks to easter coming up, the grace of the British goverment, and the fact I'm a contractor and can take time off whenever I want anyway I have 5 days of holiday starting tomorrow. Time to pour a snifter of whiskey and finish this thing in time for the TLF release.

( Public service announcment: Friends don't let friends play AI War drunk. It never ends well, and oftens ends with half the galaxy nuked. )

At this stage I have a choice. I can pick away at the AI homeworlds, using suave tactics to skillfully erode them to the point where the slightest breeze will take out the AI home command stations. Or, second option, I can cleanse the galaxy of their presence altogether.

I'm taking the second option.

Roadlinl is the next target, along with its quite delightful core laser turret controller and grav ripper, protector starship and engineer fabs. The protector starships will be very handy in keeping my fleet alive once they pop their heads in to the AI homeworlds, and the turrets useful as anti-heavy-stuff-in-exos defences. This will also leave me with 6,000 knowledge from both Zupreape and Roadlinl. Now, 6,000 knowledge isn't massively useful at the moment. But 6,500 ... well, that would allow me to buy both Mk.2 and Mk. 3 bombers. Which gets me Mk. 4s from my advanced factory. Those Mk. 5 forcefields covering everything on the AI homeworlds will weep for mercy before I'm through.

So - Take Roadlinl. Then it's time to go knowledge hack the AI homeworld.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2014, 02:09:05 pm »
Keith I broadly agree with what you're proposing. However I'd still have a couple of minute timer in there personally, just so it's not too horrifically misanthropoic. Sometimes the only thing saving you is the 30 seconds the threat spend cleaning up all the turrets on a recently popped world.
That's a good point. 

Kind of like the normal retreat timer: sure, it's smarter for the AI to immediately put a wave in "advance in retrograde" mode if it warps in on top of the Turretry Of Doom (and thus gradually accumulate a lot of threat) but it's not as fun for the player overall.

Anyway, I'll probably have it so that:
Diff < 7 : never does the "move on" mechanic
Diff <= 8 : only does it after 3 minutes
Diff < 10 : only does it after 2 minutes
Diff 10 : only does it after 1 minute


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( Public service announcment: Friends don't let friends play AI War drunk. It never ends well, and oftens ends with half the galaxy nuked. )
Only half?


Quote
At this stage I have a choice. I can pick away at the AI homeworlds, using suave tactics to skillfully erode them to the point where the slightest breeze will take out the AI home command stations. Or, second option, I can cleanse the galaxy of their presence altogether.
I know where this is going.


Quote
So - Take Roadlinl. Then it's time to go knowledge hack the AI homeworld.
What could go wrong?
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2014, 02:30:26 pm »
( Public service announcment: Friends don't let friends play AI War drunk. It never ends well, and oftens ends with half the galaxy nuked. )

Who says you need to be drunk?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2014, 04:28:44 pm »
Velociraptors, naturally, need no such assistance to enable ultraviolence mode.
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Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2014, 05:47:22 pm »
13.04: Spaceplanes are told to go harass the fortress and the Mk. 5 shield it's sitting under. Everyone else is told to GTFO so they don't auto-FRD suicide. However they are free to take potshots at the threat fleet while flying back througn Murdoch.

Oh, and I also pop two carriers letting loose 2,000 angry but soon-to-attrition youngling tigers.

13.05: Thinking about it, I should probably see how much scrap is on Murdoch. Oh, 10 million you say? Looks like my later kills haven't been accumulating any then, for shame. Still, +10,000 metal/s is handy. Wonder how long the command station will last this time.

13.06.13: About a minute apparently. Still, should have got enough to build Zupreape's defence grid.

13.07: Aww man, the command station made the sentinal frigates FRD. Right into the leech starships. Now they have snipers, ho ho ho.

13.08: 5,000 youngling tigers to Rakalurn. Ouch. At least the 1,200 on Murdoch are all about to attrition to death.

13.09: Space planes are really super ineffective against shields - they've got it down by 8%. Wave hits.

13.10: 4,200 younglings wiped out. At the cost of my entire fleet. The remainder make a run for ... somewhere. They'll attrition before long. I think some of the spare threat might have joined in that attack too, to be honest.

42,000 strength left on Murdoch.

Oh, and hey the human resistance show up again with 160 ships. Go get yourselves killed on Murdoch, please.

13.13: Huh, apparently the tigers went after the spaceplanes on Zupreape. Who knew. Human resistance are dead by this point, of course.

31,000 strength remaining on Murdoch. Reprocessors have been drafted in to start eating starships.

13.14: Reprocessors acting under cover of a vast field of lightning torpedos - super effective. How much these guys are actually boosting my economy though I'm not sure.

13.17: 1,000 ships left on Murdoch. 16,000 strength. 58 starships, 800 soon to attrition younglings. It may be time to send in the clowns rest of the fleet.

13.21: Reprocessors supported by flagships for attack boosts make absolute mincemeat of the starships until they come to the plasmas - ouch, super engine damage and artilley hull types. However seeing as they're the last 8 ships left on Murdoch I just send the entire fleet in.

The spaceplanes have managed to get the shield down to 64%. The fortress is taking great joy in wiping out the metal harvester next to it every 6 seconds.

13.22: Murdoch is finally threat free, and rebuilding can begin.

2,000 bombers to Rakalurn. 2,500 threat still unaccounted for - probably sitting on one of the two AI homeworlds.

13.23: That wave contained an abnormally large number of implosion guardians - threat fleet? Still, can't complain about 7 million salvage.

13.26: Oh cool, the warp jammer is blocking the dire guardian spawn on the AI homeworld. Rather than moving turrets back to Murdoch, half the beams and snipers move to Micvarape to deal with the soon to be incoming exos. Oh, and my penentrator is back up and has been for a while. How did I miss that.

13.29.30: Defences on Murdoch are back up to full capacity.

Now, in order to be able to exfiltrate that penentrator from the first AI homeworld I need to take down the grav reactor under a Mk. 5 shield. However even though it's in range of the Murdoch wormhole, the penetrator only does 56 million damage. I need another 4 million forcefield ignoring damage from somewhere.

Hey, I've leeched 28 zenith siege engines. Let's see what these babies can do when jumpshiped and placed under cloaker cover.

13.29.40: Nothing. They did nothing. Because I forgot the AI homeworld had planetary tachyon coverage.

13.31: While I'm waiting to think of something, and refleet, I send 900 ships through the wormhole to Roadlinl to take out an OMD / Mk. 5 MRLS next to the wormhole. Spaceplanes now have the forcefield at 32%, and can almost fire on the Mk. 3 fortress!

13.31.20: I may actually have come out of that with a net positive number of ships. Thanks leeches! Looks like about 4,500 special forces ships are domiciled on the AI homeworld at the moment. Oh, and did I mention there are currently 202 riot starships on Roadlinl? AI loves its riots.

13.35: Bombers. Why does it always have to be bombers.

13.38: Fully refleeted. +2,000 metal/s (all I get after matter converters). Time to exchange lives for guardposts! And I may as well use that penetrator here, while I'm waiting to think of a valid plan for the grav reactor.

13.40: 3 guardposts down. 12 to go. And remember - this planet has a grav drill on it. This could take a while. That said the AI seem intent on firing on my lightning missiles again and didn't actually do the fleet that much damage. All repaired in under a minute.

13.41: Spaceplanes finally take down the Mk. 3 fortress. That only took you 38 minutes guys, way to go!

13.42: So, the special forces are still sitting on Roadlinl. You know what this calls for? A nuk... EMP warhead!

13.43: I reckon a 30 second EMP will be just fine my purposes ... this time. Geronimo!

Psst. I just checked, grav drills are not immune to EMPs.

13.43.31: So, what's immune to EMPs? Mk. 5 guard posts. Riot starship. Normal starships. That Mk. 3 fortress sitting next to the command station. What isn't immune?

Carriers - including those holding most of the special forces
Fleet ships
Ion Cannons
Some of the guardians
The Grav Drill

And you know what goes well with a disabled grav drill? Jumpships.

13.43.33: Everybody jumps in. Party time! Main body of the fleet are left on the wormholes to cull the surrounding fleet ships and special forces. Raids are sent after ion cannons. And the reprocessors...

13.43.35: Oh come on, that's not fair! Teleportation is still disabled. And my ships' speed is still down to 32. Do me a favour and give grav drills EMP immunity if you're going to let them keep all their abilities :( (allllmost bug)

13.43.40: And to make matters worse, it turns out that ships *in* a carrier are not EMPed. So as I forgot to turn off auto-targetting carriers, 4,000 angry special forces ships smack me around a bit. Gang aft agley indeed.

13.43.45: Also, Mk. 5 disassembler guardians are everywhere and eating all my starships. Well they're getting focus fired.

13.44: All ships have retreated. Only lost a few hundred. Not sure exactly how much damage I did, but there's only 1,300 ships left on the planet and no carriers. Anyway, looks like we're back to the traditional way - slow, steady and heavily cloaked.

13.44.30: Zenith reprocessors take out a Mk. 5 MRLS. What, the jumpship might be slow while grav drilled but it's still a cloaked transport. Heck, I even manage to rescue 7 of them.

13.45.30: And by 'rescue', I of course mean send after a command station shield guard post just around the grav well.

13.49: Ding ding, fleet blob round 2.

13.50: Dire guardian spawning in 00.01. Timed that nicely. Of course, that just means he'll show up for round 3.

13.51: Warp gate guardian you say? On Roadlinl, you say? Well, that doesn't really both me in all honesty.

13.55: Space tanks. Makes a change from bombers, I suppose.

13.55.25: Vun. Vun Mk. 5 plasma starship to take out the last command station shield guard post. But can he survive in low power until the cloaking kicks in again?

13.55.26: That would be a no then. Of *course* there were disassembler guardians nearby.

13.56: 4,000 fighters? Don't mind if I do.

13.57.36: So 10 zenith siege engines, 7 flak guardians and 2 disassembler guardians are attacking Zupreape. And just took out the command station. Hey, I wonder if one of those has my plasma siege.

13.58: Nope, apparently not. That's a shame.

13.59: Reprisal level 1. Surprised it took this long.

14.00: Well, not the most productive hour. And that EMP was just useless. However all defences are back, I'm nearly all refleeted now (including Mk. 2 bombers), and operation 'kick the special forces in the face' can continue to phase 3. Which is quite similar to phase 1 and 2, in all honesty.

Oh, and the command station on Roadlinl is exposed. I should probably send something in to pop it.

Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #80 on: April 16, 2014, 07:19:24 pm »
14.01: 2,000 fighters? You really need to learn the meaning of this whole 'effective reprisal' thing. Looking at the logs it has a wave interval of 1, which is much lower than my normal waves. It's also taking strength directly from the salvage available, so player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier doesn't seem to be getting applied.

14.05: As previously alluded to, operation 'punch the special forces in the face' resumes.

14.06: Only 36 riot starships left now! Thinking about it I'll retreat and let the maws digest / my riots with tractors pull their prey to their doom.

14.07: Only 350 ships left on Roadlinl now, down from the peak of about 6,000. The jumpship has taken the opportunity to slowly move reprocessors into place as well, so another guardpost and an ion go down as the fleet retreats.

14.09: Uh, someone want to explain this one to me. Two design backups, 4 ship types?



14.13: Raids take out the last ion cannon. Fully restocked fleet prepares for PtSFinF round 4, with the bonus goal this time of pushing on to the command station and popping both it and the Mk. 3 fort next door. The penetrator will be coming along to assist with that latter one.

14.14: Fleet enters Roadlinl airspace.

14.14.37: Penetrator takes a shot - 56 million damage is only 32% of the forts's HPs though. He turns tail and legs it.

14.14.45: Command station pops. +25 AIP. 226 enemy ships remaining on planet.

14.14.53: Fort is dead. Now to clean up the guard posts. By which I mean, of course, retreat all ships to the wormhole exit and let the lightining torpedo frigates, sentinels and enclaves take care of things.

14.17: Right, so what do we have left. 100 ships, mostly guardians. 2 missiles, 2 MRLSes, 3 needlers and a spire shield. Appropriate type ships, to your stations.

14.18: 3,700 fighters. Murdoch. Yay, scrap. Helpful when you need to constantly refleet like me.

14.19: Oh, and 2,000 bombers too? Thanks! 6,000 wave, zero concerns.

14.22: 14 million scrap.

14.23: Oh hey, I forgot about the dire guardian lair on Roadlinl. Spawning in 10 minutes ... getting destroyed before that.

14.25: 1,300 ships ready to rock. Dire guardian hunting time.

14.28: All starships on planet dealt with. 1,000 ships sitting next to the dire guardian lair. lightnings, sentinals and enclaves sitting on the wormhole. Let's do this.

12.28.07: Dire widow, dire raider, dire needler. Widow is a fairly big problem, so burn that first. Then the raider.

12.28.11: Oh F@*#. Widow decides to take a trip to the AI homeworld. 575 ships go with it. All forces, retreat!

12.28.12: Oh wait, a widow. And a grav reactor. They can't.

12.28.23: Uh ... widow decides to bring them back to Zupreape? Why?

12.28.27: Needler guardian down. And the widow has gone back to the AI homeworld. Just ... what?

14.30: Wow, so that was ... I'm going to say extraordinarily and maliciously painful. Dire guardian lair next to the wormhole to the AI homeworld? Fine. Dire widow guardian pulling in 500+ ships, including most of my expensive maws? Not so fine. Little bleeder is now sitting back on Roadlinl at 44% health smirking at me.

14.32: 1,000 ships to Roadlinl. Burn this sucker before he fully regenerates.

14.32.30: Done. And a 1,500 armor ship reprisal.

14.34: And another reprisal? Also, I've just realised that the warp gate guardians on Roadlinl are acting as reinforcement warp gates, along with the special forces, which is what is feeding the constant stream of ships into the planet.

14.34.40: Murdoch command goes down to the first reprisal wave. Man I hate armor ships and their 4x structural (i.e. forcefield) multipliers.

14.39: Murdoch defence grid back up, although I have very little money now so refleeting may take a while.

14.41: 1,200 ships is good enough. Go back in, seek and destroy those warp gate guardians.

14.41.41: I, uh, I don't get it. 2 more warp gate guardians just spawned on Roadlinl. But the command station is dead. So are the special forces guard posts. Where are they coming from!?! Please don't tell me warp gate guardians spawn in more warp gate guardians as reinforcements.

14.44: Whoops, Murdoch goes down again. This time to a 3,500 ship fighter wave I didn't notice.

14.47: 3,500 bombers to ???. Haven't seen that in a while.

14.48: 800 ships join the 'rescue Murdoch' mission. Only about 100 survive. 6,000 threat, economy is flatlined and only 500 mobile ships.

14.57: Murdoch defences back online.

15.00: Wow. Okay, so what I was hoping would be a quick win has turned into a horrific morass. Both with that grav drill slowing everything down, and those warp gate guardians absolutely reaming me. We're now back up to 300 odd ships on Roadlinl, far too many of them starships. I've essentially been running in place since 14.07.

Think I'll give this a break for tonight and continue in the morning.



Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2014, 10:12:57 pm »
Quote
The fortress is taking great joy in wiping out the metal harvester next to it every 6 seconds.
Simple minds, simple pleasures.


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Do me a favour and give grav drills EMP immunity if you're going to let them keep all their abilities :( (allllmost bug)
Made a note to do so.  Sorry it doesn't disable them; that's one of those abilities which triggers off of "is there any unit in this list?", and units don't get moved in and out of those kinds of lists, regardless of state changes, unless they leave the planet or die.

Wouldn't it be a shame if one of those two conditions were to occur to that innocent grav drill?


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14.01: 2,000 fighters? You really need to learn the meaning of this whole 'effective reprisal' thing. Looking at the logs it has a wave interval of 1, which is much lower than my normal waves. It's also taking strength directly from the salvage available, so player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier doesn't seem to be getting applied.
I think the WaveSizeMultiplier thing isn't a problem: Reprisal Level 1 (which is the soonest it can actually launch the reprisal) = the normal strength of a wave with interval:1 and everything else as it would normally be (the random factor takes the averaged middle).

But perhaps it needs to assume an interval of 2, rather than 1; several mechanics based off wave strength do that.

Either way, the higher the threshold, the longer it takes to charge one of those.  That's why it's been taking so long to charge them.


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14.09: Uh, someone want to explain this one to me. Two design backups, 4 ship types?
The bug there is actually that there's 2 backups.  The designs are tied to the planet (and require the presence of a backup), rather than to a specific unit.  But in general it doesn't impact you whether there's 2 backups on the planet or 2 dozen.


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12.28.23: Uh ... widow decides to bring them back to Zupreape? Why?
Hmm, yea, maybe it ought to just stay put when on an AI HW with a tractor load.  I think it was just hunting back and forth between planets because it always assumes it needs to be taking the tractor load to some other AI planet.  Though I guess that other planet wasn't AI anymore.


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Please don't tell me warp gate guardians spawn in more warp gate guardians as reinforcements.
Ok, I won't tell you ;)


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and those warp gate guardians absolutely reaming me
You may thank for that: Kahuna's recent reminder that those weren't getting spawned in any games.  And people think this game has no PvP.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 10:14:47 pm by keith.lamothe »
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Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2014, 06:41:29 am »
15.02: 3,000 ships hit Murdoch. Guess some of that threat got antsy.

15.03: Aaand once again Murdoch command goes down.

15.04: That's a rather large number of guardians on Zupreape.

15.05: Aaand Zupreape goes down to 8 plasma sieges and a spire starship.

OH COME ON. Three more warp gate guardians spawn on Roadlinl.

15.05: Uh, another 2,000 threat at Murdoch. The AI is taking this thing rather seriously.

15.06: It's not threat at all. It appears to be the remnants of the special forces taking revenge. I'll just leave them there to level the planet.

15.10: Murdoch and Zupreape back up, although defences are still building. Due to the early popping of command stations in both cases I didn't get nearly as much scrap as I need - seriously considering popping a distribution node at this point.

Oh, and 2,200 bombers to the defenceless Murdoch.

15.13: Wave dealt with. Thinking about it, the wormhole from Murdoch to the AI homeworld is my only remaining warp accessible point (bar the warp gate guardians), so I should probably move the minefields.

Oh hey, you can't sabotage hack distribution nodes you own. Lame.

15.15: 6,000 tachyon microfighters. Definitely not playing around anymore.

15.17: Yeah, so moving the minefields was a good idea. Those killed about 3k on their own. 3,100 threat though, some from escapees and about 2,500 from before.

As expected, 2,000 of that is on Samuockash.

15.27: Still refleeting. The warp gate guardians have bought the ships on Roadlinl back up to 500. Still, I have 1,000 odd ships so the plan this time is to warp in, stay by the wormhole, and see if I can't snipe some of these irritating warpers.

15.28: 1 down, 4 to go. At 48 million health these things take a while to snipe.

15.30: One left. 100 enemy ships left on the planet.

OH COME ON. The last warp gate guardian spawns a reinfocement wave ... with 4 wave guardians!

1,100 cloaked ship to Murdoch. Defences can soak that on their own.

15.32: Reprisal 1. 900 grav drains to Murdoch. My fleet on Roadlinl is down to about 500 now. Doesn't help that the warp guardians like hanging out next to the Mk. 5 guard posts I haven't yet taken down.

15.34: Well, all my expensive starships have died. However I've finally taken out the last warp guardian. And there are just 49 ships and 2 guardposts left on the planet.

15.40: Refleeting to take out the last 8 remaining starships. I think I can say, with great sincerity, that this is the most problems a planet has ever given me after I've already popped the command station. Literally, this has taken me an hour and a half to clear.

15.42: Finally the last starship dies. Warp jammer command goes up next to the irreplacable cluster. I'll also put a forcefield over the grav drill, because honestly 180 metal/s and 40,000 energy is actually a significant contribution to my economy. The Mk. 2 radar jammer is on its own though.

15.44: Finally the station goes up. Takes a while, when your engineers are moving at 32 speed to get there. Grav effect is still applying to all my ships - I thought it only affected enemies? Anyway protector starships, grav rippers and more engineers are mine. Along with laser turrets, delightful laser turrets.

Normal defence grid goes up, all my current ships retreat.

15.45: 5,500 tachyon microfighters to Murdoch. If at first you don't succeed, try again with a smaller wave?

15.49: Rakalurn is relatively safe now, I don't think it needs 10 forcefields anymore. 6 are distributed between Roadlinl and Micvarape.

Okay, now that I've finally taken Roadlinl the next step is of course the AI homeworld. It makes sense to take the one next to Murdoch first, as those exos will beeline through Micvarape to my homeworld. I still have to figure out some way of taking out that grav reactor though...

15.50: Rebuilding the defence grid. It makes sense to move everything back to Micvarape and stick a warp jammer back on Murdoch. Move all the tractors / grav turrets / snipers from Rakalurn back as well. And, for the first time in quite a while, turn off the warp gates on Rakalurn.

Hey, you want to know what a real crashing economy looks like? -59,000 metal/s. With constructors turned off. On the plus side though, turns out Roadlinl is the motherlode. 7 metal harvesters and for some reason the grav drill is actually giving me 270 metal rather than the 180 it promised. +750/s, even after the warp jammer is taken into account, which is a solid 20% economy boost.

15.55: Riddle me this. What is immune to forcefields, does 4 million damage, and I actually have access to?

A: A Mk. 2 armored warhead.

15.57: The core protector starship design I'm using is called the 'Kitchen sink', by the way. One of everything, including the shield generator.

15.59: Lyudmila pops her head into Desenan and take out the core warhead interceptor. 1,000 threat here.

3,800 missile frigates to Micvarape. With no fleet ships there. This could be a good test of the defences.

16.00: Alrighty then. Time to take the fight to the AI homeworlds. Be interesting to see if this really works out the way I'm hoping, but I can't think of any other way to chew 4 million health off that shielded grav reactor. Also, it seems like it has been a very long time since the last CPA...

EDIT: State of the empire:

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 06:44:18 am by RockyBst »

Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2014, 08:12:38 am »
16.02: Yep, not a problem. Even when 1,000 bombers show up all they do is set off the area mines and hurt the missile frigates.

16.04: Just realised that Mk. 2 armored warheads actually cost 800,000 metal. That's a much as a core protector starship or Mk. 5 plasma. In the middle of a refleet, this might take a while.

16.06.40: Jumpship drops a scout starship and 20 grav drains at the extremities of the homeworld grav well, to lure all the defending ships over there.

16.06.52: 12 seconds later it returns with 8 reprocessors and leaves them next to the unshielded core electric post. Which promptly explodes.

16.07: Huh, exo split. Half goes to Murdoch, apparently en-route to Rakalurn. The rest to Micvarape. Both die, obviously. Actually, I probably got more salvage from that than a normal wave, so thanks for the refleeting boost!

16.09: So what does that leave us with. A shielded core beam post and riot control, both within firing distance of the Murdoch wormhole. The grav reactor under the shield. Another, unshielded riot control guardpost. And my old friend the beam spewing core sentinel post, who likes to take long sojourns across the planet. I think he's next. Oh, and the obligatory Mk.3 fortress next to the command station, of course.

16.12: Sentinel beams have 8,000 range. Reprocessors have 8,000 range. The jumpship drops them off just outside spitting distance, then quickly evacs.

16.13: I forgot about radar dampening. The lucky sentinal escapes with about 10% health.

Thinking of radar dampening, that gives me another problem - my penetrator won't be able to shoot from the wormhole, it'll need to get with 5,500 range of the grav reactor.

16.14: 5,300 missile frigates and 80 starships to Micvarape. Wow. Time to shuttle in some sentinal frigates and leech starships.

Also, I just tried an experiment. Turns out, the Mk. 5 jumpship doesn't attrition on the AI homeworlds despite saying it does so on worlds >= Mk. 5. All that super-fast micro action, and it wasn't even attritioning anyway! (bug?)

16.16: Huh, that wasn't actually too bad at all. Thinking about it, are these waves getting chipper shredded? That would explain why I'm seeing so many guardians.

Actually, according to advanced logging that is exactly what is happening. Good old auto-target carriers.

16.19: Minefields are back up. Time to provoke another exo.

16.19.20: I really need to remember to jump some ships to the edge of the grav well and pull off the few thousand ships clustered around the core sentinal before doing this again.

16.22: Finally the tricksy sentinel goes down. Reprisal level 1.

16.23: Uh, yeah, one of those exos just spawned on the second AI homeworld. As in, the one which wasn't attacked. EventAttackPopulation log doesn't give any clues as to why. (bug, or just ... ?)

16.25: Reprisal is a 1,000 odd bombers.

Uhhh, so I just looked in the wave logs and I think something is badly broken in the CPA code. I've been getting one of these every minute or two for the last 2 hours:

Quote
4/16/2014 11:55:35 PM (7.020)
-----------------------------------
Triggering CPA (always from first AI); Game Time: 14:39:00
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 191
since diff > 9, numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 240 + ( (FInt)120 * ( (FInt)9 - this.AIDifficulty ) ).IntValue = 120
minimumAIPForCPAPurposes = Game.Instance.GameSecond / numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 439
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = Max(effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes,minimumAIPForCPAPurposes) = 439
difficultyFactor = ( this.AIDifficulty * this.GetHandicapMultiplier() ) / ( 13 - this.AIDifficulty ) : 3.33
aiTypeFactor = 1
simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor = Mat.One + ( ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 ) / ( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 ) ) : 2.67
simulateDoubleWaveFactor = 2
simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier = (if <= 3 then 1, <= 4 : 1.5, <= 5 : 1.75, <= 6 : 2, <= 7 : 2.25, <= 9 : 2.5, <= 9.3 : 2.9, <= 9.6 : 3.3, <= 9.8 : 4, 10 : 5) = 5
humanHomeworldCountMultiplier = Mat.One + ( (FInt)( humanHomeworldCount - 1 ) * FInt.FromParts( 0, 330 ) ) = 1
numberOfShips (before applying cap-scale) = ( (FInt)effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes * difficultyFactor * aiTypeFactor * simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor * simulateDoubleWaveFactor * simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier * humanHomeworldCountMultiplier ).IntValue = 39018

But I've never gotten a CPA. Say what would happen if someone, theoretically, destroyed the AI command stations on every single planet in the galaxy except the AI homeworlds?

(bug?!?)

This is actually a net disadvantage for me, means I can't rely on the CPAs to clear out the strategic reserve.

16.27.33: So, let's jump a hacker to the AI homeworld. Edge of the grav well. Hmm, 15 seconds 'til the next tick?

Wait, I can still build more knowledge hackers. In fact, I can build an infinite number of knowledge hackers. And when they all come online a second later - each one does its own instant tick before going into a 15 second cooldown.

16.27.44: Yeah, you might want ... you might want to make that a global cooldown. Or limit the number of covert knowledge extractors on a planet. Otherwise something like this might happen:


 
Hmm, hacking progress cost of next point of covert knowledge extraction: 0.0015 HaP. Or is that normal, seeing as my total HaP seems to have gone down from 51 to 24.

(this one, obviously, bug).
 
16.29: Unshielded core riot control post. 8 reprocessors. 4 flagships, and a couple of decoy drones. Biiig badda-boom.

Oh hey, the exo gave me a black widow golem this time. Cool. Lyudmila sends her regards.
 
16.30: Okay, I think I've broken the game enough for the moment. When I return, I shall have to figure out how to deal with those three remaining shielded guard posts.
 
Hint: It'll probably involve the Mk. IV bombers I just got from that knowledge raid.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2014, 10:14:10 pm »
And it goes marching on... Odd about the CPAs and whatnot.  Will try to look at the stuff you pointed out after the TLF release tomorrow settles down a bit.  Goodness it's been a lot of hours this week :)
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Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2014, 07:14:47 am »
Yeah, and I'm not sure reading AI War AARs really counts as relaxation ;)

TLF of course takes priority, and I'm quite looking forward to playing it. Managed to keep myself relatively unspoilt so far so I can come at it fresh. After I post this I'm going to go see if I can figure out where the buy button on your site is hiding this time - always nice not to give steam their cut when you can.

With this knowledge hacking thing, I could see a situation where an unscrupulous person could, say, jumpship a hacker onto every planet in the (80 planet) galaxy. Then pause the game, build 340 covert knowledge extractors per hacker, and one second later have about 240,00 knowledge to spend. And as it only takes a second, you don't normally see any hacking response in that time - so theoretically this can be done while already negative of HaP.

 

Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2014, 11:01:20 am »
So I've moved back to my laptop temporarily as I'm travelling for Easter. This thing is four years old, about 1/3rd the power of my desktop and yet runs AI war so much better. Why? Because I've just realised that my Windows 8 desktop really, really hates firing effects. Lightning, beams, especially tractors just slow it to an absolute crawl. I just didn't notice it until I moved back to a Windows 7 box, where they all go off without a problem. Anybody else seen this kind of performance issue?

Anyway:

16.31: Y'know what, after the hand the RNG dealt me earlier I have absolutely no compunction about knowledge hacking the second AI homeworld as well. Now, what can I do with 5,500 knowledge?

Oh, Mk. 3 raid starships you say? SUPERB

16.34: Raids are building. 2,000 odd eyebots to Micvarape.

16.44.30: The raids are finished. 1.8 million lovely forcefield ignoring damage every 3 seconds. A cap of armor ships, spaceplanes, youngling tigers and some leeched tachyon microfighers join them on Murdoch.

16.44.50: Raids into the jumpship. That's going to sit at an oblique angle to the core beam post, away from the wormhole, hopefully keeping them out of the cross-fire

16.44.55: Chaff ships first, to asbsorb the first beam hit.

16.44.58: Okay, raids have 6 second until it reloads. Should allows us to get off 2/4 necessary shots.

16.45.21: Guardpost down. 9 raids still alive. They get told to take down the ion cannon that's also under the forcefield then make a run for it - they are, of course, black hole immune.

16.45.40: None of them survive. Ah well, mission accomplished.

16.46: Hmm, another attack through Zupreape. Save is attached from just before I wiped the core beam, if you're interested. Although you may have to do the heavy guard-post killing yourself.

16.50: 3,600 bombers to Micvarape. Thank goodness for area mines, huh. Jumpship is currently in the process of transporting everything except maws and sentinal frigates to Murdoch.

16.59: Mk. 2 armored missile is finally finished. Now to just wait for the rest of the refleeting. 3,600 threat somewhere is a tad concerning.

17.01: Only things we're waiting on now are the slow to build lightning frigates and a couple of maws. Let's go harrass the second AI homeworld in the meantime. Unshielded guard posts: Core booster, core Zenith fortress, core implosion drone, core arachnid. Three of which have hull susceptible to reprocessors.

17.05: Core archnid post goes down, along with an ion cannon.

17.06: Exos go through both Roadlinl and Zupreape - however I split the fleet in half to counter them anyway. Sweet, sweet salvage.

1,600 eyebots to Micvarape.

17.09: Zenith fortress pops. This time one exo spawns on the first AI homeworld and goes straight in to Micvarape.

17.17: Okay, any attempt to take the core booster is getting intercepted by a few hundred riots and their shields, so let's leave that for now. Fleet is back up to full capacity.

So, the plan. First, Lyudila will warp in to Desenan. That should draw the ships currently clustered around the Murdoch wormhole away. Once she leaves, a full cap of Mk. 1-4 bombers, 90 odd eyebots and every starship I own (including 9 raids) will warp in and engage the riot control post under the shield. The rest of the 1,800 strong fleet will dash towards the grav reactor, providing cover for both the penetrator and Mk. 2 armored warhead. Once the grav reactor goes down, everyone can then flee.

First though, 3.5k armored ships to Micvarape.

17.23: Wave terminated. Defences back up. 1 million in the bank. Time to do this thing.

One small change in plan - scouts indicate about 100 riot starships over both wormhole exits. Seeing a Lyudmila isn't immune to forcefields, that means she wouldn't be able to escape. So, jumpship to the edge of the grav well for distraction purposes.

17.23.45: Distractionary grav drains warped into far orbit. 3,800 ships start chasing them, along with another 4,500 special forces contained in carriers.

17.24.03: Grav drains start dying. Riots are miles from the wormholes. Lyudmila jumps in to pull the strategic reserve ships towards the Micvarape wormhole.

17.24.25: Lyudmila warps out at 60% health. Looks like this is about optimal for the attack. All forces on Murdoch are mobilised.

17.24.44: Penetrator takes its shot with 5% health left. A millisecond after firing, it goes down. Looks like I won't be able to use this tactic on the last grav reactor. Riot control guardpost is at 50% and the shield covering it appears to be down. But practically every AI ship is now in firing range of the 1,400 remaining fleet ships.

17.24.51: Riot control guard post goes down. Fleet ships are told to retreat into a protective ball around the lightning frigates. Just need that armored warhead to hit home now.

17.24.55: Lyudmila warps back in to provide long range fire support.

17.25.02: Armored warhead goes down. Dammit, so much for 'almost impossible to destroy'. Entire fleet is redirected to take down that grav reactor - even if takes them down to the last man.

17.25.12: Lyudmila at 14% health. However as the most juicy target on planet she has drawn off most of the strategic reserve from the main attack fleet. Remaining 5 raids are closing on the grav reactor. Lyudmila legs it.

17.25.15: Lyudmila escapes with 90,000 health. That's half the health of a standard Mk. 1 fighter, or 0.15% of her regular 60 million health. Engineers are instantly repairing, so that the threat which follows her doesn't finish the job.

17.25.30: Grav reactor at 1 million health. But only one Mk. 3 raid remaining. It needs to get three shots off to finish this.

17.25.35: Grav reactor down. I think plasma splash worked in my favour for a change. 372 friendly ships remain on Desenan, facing off against over 7,000.

Oh, and a 2,000 fighter reprisal wave to Micvarape. With another reprisal 1 in the offing.

17.26.04: Last ships either dies or exits the planet. In total only 54 of the 1,800 ships which started out escaped, mostly starships at 10% or less health. The majority of the lightnings also seem to have made it through, presumably because they were still sitting next to the wormhole.

17.26.09: One exo going through Roadlinl again. Another hitting Micvarape - it has an artillery golem. Focus fire that beast, quickly.

17.26.25: Arty golem goes down. Luckily it didn't get it into its head to attack Lyudmila.

17.27.30: Exos handled, along with the first reprisal wave. Still waiting for the last one to declare.

17.28: 1,000+ bombers. The salvage has restored the mines on Micvarape, this won't be an issue.

17.30: Bombers terminated.

So, the first AI command station is now accessible. Couple of pretty hairy moments there, and it required far more of the fleet dying than I was hoping for. The failure of the armored warhead was particularly disappointing, but it overall losses weren't as bad as they could have been. Most of the high value starships and lightnings escaped. So, a half hour or so to refleet then I reckon I can blob-of-doom the AI command station.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2014, 11:11:50 am »
Win8 (hopefully 8.1?) hates a lot of things. Basically anything I've seen on the internet has been 'halp halp program not working pls look (win8)', people finding problems like yours, or people complaining about all the complaints win8 gets despite it having sorta-irrelevant things like slightly-faster boot time.

Offline RockyBst

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2014, 07:24:27 am »
So, the AI war game got so intense that my laptop crashed. And lost the ongoing log. This means that (possibly thankfully) I can't give you the blow by blow.

In general though:

18.00: 1,800 ships to the AI homeworld. Home command station goes down. This time, not a single ship escapes. +20 AIP. Suprisingly, no reprisal wave. Maybe it doesn't send one once dead?

Unfortunately, this still leaves the best part of 4,000 ships on the planet. With about 80,000 strength.

18.30: Defences are moved to Zupreape, including most of the forcefields, snipers and mines. Hip hopping reprocessors also take out all but the remaining 2 core guardposts on the last AI homeworld: Only a core spire shield guardpost and the grav reactor remain.

19:00: So yeah, between waves and the complete refleet it takes the best part of an hour to rebuild. Once that's done, a warp jammer command station gets quick built on Desenan (for the scrap) and the fleet hops in to engage the remaining forces. They chew off about a thousand then retreat so as not to get overwhelmed by the huge number of guardians. In particular, the 30-odd implosion guardians on planet prevent me using Lyudmila.

Repeat several times.

20:00: New motto, 'when in doubt throw cloaked lightning warheads about'. Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that I want the 13 metal extractors and the starship constructor that'll let me get Mk. 4 raids I probably would have nuked the place by now.

20.18: Between beach heading with a warp jammer / Mk. 5 turrets and the fleet I finally manage to take down the last ship on Desenan. More than 2 hours after actually taking the homeworld. Still, I at least got several million scrap to partially replace my losses, and the 13 metal harvesters will provide a very welcome boost to my economy.

It's at this point, of course, that I realise that by building a command station I actually flipped the advanced starship constructor early on, and it's now dead.

20.24: Well, that's a nasty shock. I didn't realise waves could come through the exo-galactic wormhole. 3,000 bombers hit Desenan while my fleet is all coalescing on Zupreape. Uhmm, let's hope a warp jammer command station takes care of that little problem in future.

20.31: Well, that was swiftly sorted out at least. Although it does take Lyudmila down to 9%.

20.39: Okay, this time around I'm going to deal with the special forces in a rational and reasonable manner. By which I mean, of course, I'm going to nuke the AI homeworld.

20.39.30: Scouts report a smidgeon over 14,000 ships on the AI homeworld.

20.39.40: +50 AIP progress from the nuke. +10 AIP progress from the troop accelerator. All but 31 of the 3,000 pending threat wiped out. Scouts indicate just 1,500 ships remaining on the AI homeworld.

Oh, and the Mk. 3 fortress has lost supply.

20.40.25: Okay, this seems like a perfect time to remove that last shielded grav reactor. Lyudmila and 1,800 ships warp in. With the strategic reserve online, we're back up to 4,000 ships on planet. Just a shame I can't nuke these guys too.

20.40.45: Lyudmila leaves orbit before becoming strategic reserve food. I should probably have bought some lightning warheads with me.

20.41.12: Grav reactor goes down. 1,200 friendly ships remaining on planet. However what I didn't notice is that there are apparently two dire widow guardians! That's what you get for ignoring the dire guardian lair. I'd be surprised if anyone escapes this.

20.41.34: Last dire widow guardian goes down. 600 ships remaining. Which are, of course, told to leg it. Oh, and at this point the guardian lair spawns a dire needler guardian.

20.43: Okay, that didn't go so badly. Looks like most of the expensive starships escaped, so refleeting shouldn't be too painful. The spire shield guardpost with its 200 million health is sitting right next to the Roadlinl wormhole, so the fleet is being redirected there.

20.47: Bomber wave attacks Zupreape. Then the dire needler guardian senses an opportunity and attacks Roadlinl. Both are terminated.

20.53: 1,400 ships to take out the spire shield guardpost. Piece of cake. Most of them even survive the experience.

20.56.45: Alrighty then, time for the big one. Hey, remember that Mk. 2 penetrator which has been hanging around on Kuer since about hour six? Yeah, he's tasked with the killing blow.

1,600 ships, including Lyudmila, warp in from Zupreape.

20.56.52: 7 seconds later, and it's all over.



One day, my true ambition, is to be able to play the AI War victory music on guitar.



Yes, that was 15 achievements. That's what happens when you choose 4 different AI types at diff >= 9.

I'll follow this up with an after action report report sooner or later. But for now, I'm just going to bask in the glow of success.


Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: 10 planets, diff 10 ... what could go wrong
« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2014, 11:01:52 pm »
Congratulations!  First 10/10 victory for you, right?

Are the MVP units going to start a band?  "Lyudmila and The Jumpship" has a certain ring to it.

So, the AI war game got so intense that my laptop crashed. And lost the ongoing log. This means that (possibly thankfully) I can't give you the blow by blow.
Sorry about the crash.  Was it just one of those "generic windows popup informing you the game has crahsed" situations or did it actually give you a real error message?  OutOfMemoryException, etc.

Quote
20.24: Well, that's a nasty shock. I didn't realise waves could come through the exo-galactic wormhole.
Where else do you suppose they originally enter? :)


Quote
20.39: Okay, this time around I'm going to deal with the special forces in a rational and reasonable manner. By which I mean, of course, I'm going to nuke the AI homeworld.
There is no other rational conclusion.  We've got to make a Sun out of it.


Quote
Oh, and the Mk. 3 fortress has lost supply.
Cue massive computer rage against the subroutine that neglected to make sure the Fort's UPS units were properly maintained.


Quote
20.56.52: 7 seconds later, and it's all over.
And the Cage Match of Doom is won!  Epic tale, thanks for sharing it with us.

In the midst of TLF post-release support (and actually trying to recuperate a bit) right now, but more AIW updates to come soon.  The dirty rotten tricks (and bugs) which permitted you this victory shall be dealt with ;)


Quote
One day, my true ambition, is to be able to play the AI War victory music on guitar.
If there's anything you need from Pablo on that, I can pass along the request.  He's always happy to discuss the music, and iirc he's given out guitar tabs and that kind of thing in the past.


Quote
I'll follow this up with an after action report report sooner or later. But for now, I'm just going to bask in the glow of success.
Well fought.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!