WIP Images From The A Valley Without Wind Art Revamp

[keith.lamothe]

This is one of few games where a total art revamp is lore-compatible, even when in transition from one to the other.

[LaughingThesaurus]

This is one of few games where a total art revamp is lore-compatible, even when in transition from one to the other.

I always thought the story was structured that way purely because then you could make drastic changes and just say "The time shards did things."

[keith.lamothe]

This is one of few games where a total art revamp is lore-compatible, even when in transition from one to the other.

I always thought the story was structured that way purely because then you could make drastic changes and just say "The time shards did things."

It had more to do with wanting to do radically different areas/regions.

AIW's supposedly intact universe hasn't saved it from drastic changes over the years

[x4000]

Well, I actually had wanted to do a game about time travel at the start -- but then from a story point of view thought it would be better if the time periods were all contiguous rather than having literal time travel mechanics.  The variety of areas we could have done even without the time shards stuff, that was just something that interested me and that fit.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Ahh, interesting.

I just remember seeing the AI War scroll and it was very well open to basically any game setup you can possibly make, so I drew that parallel. Seemed to me like you guys did your stories such that constant updates and massive sweeping changes make more sense, and that the stories were just kind of a token thing to begin with... then again AVWW did give me this huge retro vibe without the retro graphics, so maybe that's where that came from.

[Madmanimalian]

So, I just updated to 1.207, and noticed a new backdrop; quite interesting, I have to say.

I'm not sure if it's related to the art revamp, or if it's one that I simply haven't come across before.

[x4000]

Ahh, interesting.

I just remember seeing the AI War scroll and it was very well open to basically any game setup you can possibly make, so I drew that parallel. Seemed to me like you guys did your stories such that constant updates and massive sweeping changes make more sense, and that the stories were just kind of a token thing to begin with... then again AVWW did give me this huge retro vibe without the retro graphics, so maybe that's where that came from.

AI War also wasn't something that was intentionally vague, any more than something like Star Trek is.  I mean, if you get right down to it, any sci-fi story can basically fall back on the "oh yeah, we forgot about the fleem drive!  Coupling that to the phased array of tachyon bursts might just give us the extra power we need, Captain!" trick.  I guess the story is that with Star Trek, the writers would literally put "insert techno-babble" or somesuch in the script, rather than writing that out.  And someone else then came through and made sure that the techno-babble was as internally consistent as possible.

Now, I'm not sure of the validity of that statement with Star Trek, and it hardly matters.  The point is that the writers of that show were using the science as a sort of loose backdrop in order to talk primarily about social, political, or general-technological issues.  Using the series as a foil for the real world, etc, etc.  With AI War I didn't have any such lofty ambitions, but I did want to have an internally-consistent game world where I could feel like the commander being pushed to the limit against forces unknown.  The other thing is that I really like the feeling of adventure you get from having a world that's a bit wide open -- that's why both AVWW and AI War have that, honestly.  I like the feeling that anything could happen, and with sci fi in particular that's something that is really embodied in space exploration to me.

Anyhow, I don't think a story has to be vague in order to allow for future game mechanic updates, is I guess my point.  But having a sense of infinite possibility is helpful for certain kinds of games.  Shattered Haven, on the other hand, is more closed in terms of scope.  There is a large amount of stuff in there (larger than AVWW had at 1.0, in many regards), but the story is so much more central that it's less wide-open.  I guess it's the difference between a sandbox game and not-a-sandbox game.  Shattered Haven is limited in scope in the same way that Zelda or Final Fantasy are, whereas AVWW or AI War have more in common with something like GTA; you could find anything going on in those cities, within some reasonable bounds of the general style and tone of the story, you know?

I don't think I've really made my point all that well, but I can't think what else to say so I'll stop there.  There's a distinction in my mind, but I'm having trouble expressing it.

[x4000]

So, I just updated to 1.207, and noticed a new backdrop; quite interesting, I have to say.

I'm not sure if it's related to the art revamp, or if it's one that I simply haven't come across before.

It's new in this new version -- not really related to the art revamp, but it is a backdrop that's never been in the game before (now it's the only backdrop that is used for the main menu).  This was actually the banner that we took to PAX East in 8ft x 3ft dimensions, although I trimmed the width a bit on this one.  It's a favorite of mine, but it will eventually be replaced by something else that Heavy Cat does in the final style of the game.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh, it's okay. I understand your point. But like, I'm the kind of guy who will pick out game mechanics that aren't consistent with story, make fun of them for a bit, then just enjoy the game. It's not even a black mark on the story in my opinion, it's just fun for me to do... but darn it, I can't do that with your games! Figured you'd have done that on purpose, but I guess not. Only in my little crazy world developers would do that.

And, you are absolutely right. You don't need a vague story for the sake of future game mechanics. Who seriously actually cares if all of that is completely consistent? I mean, I guess you get cases like certain JRPGs where character deaths can't be healed by in-game death-healing items. You also get a bit of a sense in a game like Diablo that, if there are as many heroes as there are players, why do YOU have to be the one who stops Diablo? Same way with story-based MMOs. You, deep down, know that you aren't the special hero some may call you... but they still call you that anyway because that's the story not meshing with the way MMOs work.
But like, I always think it's cool when there are little explanations for game mechanics as part of the story. Any game where gameplay and story mesh well get bonus points in my book. Bastion is damn good for that.

Oh, and I'd heard about the Star Trek technobabble thing before. Unfortunately, not being a respectable nerd (kidding), I know only very little about Star Trek. But the way you make it sound, it seems a lot like House got to be after a season or so. The medicine took a backseat, it was already simplified enough, all for the sake of drama between characters and such... then again, it's not compelling viewing worrying over whether a patient is going to live or die... most of all one you don't particularly care about.

[x4000]

Yep, all makes sense. And we do go to some lengths to make sure that the story and mechanics are internally consistent. But it's usually more along the lines of more expansion, or "you thought things worked like this but really something else was going on behind the scenes!"

The best representation of that, in a show, was on Friends. Chandler makes up a fake game called Cups that he has Joey play. He's intentionally losing to give Joey money, so whatever Joey draws is "great cards." Joey remembers he rules and later loses all the money to Ross, though, who thinks he is good at the "game." Chandler wants his money back, but Ross will only play him at Cups for it. So naturally Chandler uses the same trick of making crap up in order to get his money back.

Another great example is any DM of a pen and paper rpg. They have plans and a storyline they want to follow. But they also have to be flexible enough, within reason, to accommodate whatever players actually choose to do at the session. No plan survives contact with the enemy OR with players. I think I just take the general DM mindset to take story creation when the world is a sandbox, and I think Keith does the same.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh God, I remember Cups. That was hilarious.

I only have some limited experience with those RPGs. I've only played HeroQuest with some friends of mine. My friend who's playing the role of Zargon, he does things to ensure that the game is always interesting. For instance, if we're running over time, and we open doors to new rooms, he just won't place all the enemies there. Or, for the first run of the first quest (which is absurdly hard), he actually placed like four times as many healing potions as you're supposed to find there. I suggested to him recently actually, to do that to swing things against our favor as well. IE, if we're perfectly fine halfway through the quest, give regular monsters spells and longbows and such to push us harder. But like, that doesn't really have a story influence, right? It's okay, he does his own thing for that too.

There were a few points where hilarious things happen in games. In particular, one hilarious thing was when I, the wizard, successfully used a custom player-version of Command to command a goblin jailkeeper who was the guy who locked us up... and I then locked him in his own jail cell. He didn't escape, but if he had escaped, he would have come back for revenge. There was also a particular Orc who I... well I don't know what happened. I know that he killed one of his kind and left the dungeon, but I don't remember why. I think he was just blocked in to the area he was at? But, since then, we've had an 'unofficial ally' in the form of an Orc Outcast. This happened at least three other times, so each of us effectively has had our own improvised run-in with a friendly monster. An upcoming custom quest will necessitate the use of our ordinary heroes as well as our allies.
We've done a lot of custom content there though. It's been really fun just having situations like that.
Maybe I should get into something like Dungeons and Dragons but it's so complex to get into anyway, even though I know it could just be hilarious.

[Giegue]

So, I just updated to 1.207, and noticed a new backdrop; quite interesting, I have to say.

I'm not sure if it's related to the art revamp, or if it's one that I simply haven't come across before.

oh yeah, that background doesn't work right on my computer. it keeps flickering left and right because it doesn't take up the whole screen.