Where's the Valley?

[Drjones013]

I had a conversation with someone about this game and there were general smiles and nods until I mentioned the game didn't end. This brought a look of disbelief and ended in confused laughter.

So where's the Valley? Ultimately are we aiming to collect survivors to rescue them from a fate worse than x? Are we trying to reestablish humanity in certain zones? This could provide some of the long-term goals: Ilari unlocks based on population rescued. This seems to make more sense then endlessly killing evil overlords on endless continents. Once the population reaches a certain amount then the overlords attack and try killing off your population. The population needs to be contained in multiple settlements and so this adds a strategic element to the game.

I like the idea of a never-ending sandbox but I find myself in the distinct minority whenever I discuss the game outside the forums.

[Zozma]

I kind of got the impression that there isn't one. The world shattered. The seemingly simple goal of a valley without wind is inattainable in an endlessly hostile and inhospitable world. A glyphbearer, with all his or her power, can only purchase a momentary respite.

[x4000]

The game, in many senses, does end -- you save each continent from an overlord.  The End.

Each continent beyond that is like an awesome version of New Game+, is how I've been explaining it.

[Drjones013]

Totally understandable and that's what attracted me to the game in the first place. I'm just having issues selling friends on the idea (one of them is the same guy who thought it was Terraria, so I realize I may just be arguing with brick walls). This didn't seem to be as big an issue with AI War, where I could clearly define a win. I'll try explaining it as just winning against the overlord and the game 'resetting.'

[x4000]

Makes sense to me!

[Calli]

I always assumed the valley without wind is what you make of it.  If it actually had no airflow whatsoever, that'd be a very bad thing!

Less jokily, setting up the wind shelters and knocking out the overlord(s) seems like a big step toward the idea of a safe haven, wind or no.  With those taken care of, it's theoretically a lot easier for non-glyphbearing survivors to rebuild.

[nanostrike]

Unlike Terraria, I don't think these devs are going to drop their game like a hot potato after 4 months.

That was pretty shameful of them.

[Misery]

Unlike Terraria, I don't think these devs are going to drop their game like a hot potato after 4 months.

That was pretty shameful of them.

It really was, wasnt it?

And it's not like the game was BAD or something;  it coulda gone even further than it did.   But then "Hey, dont feel like it anymore, bye!".   I hear they're working on a game that's SIMILAR in gameplay style, even (why not just STICK WITH THE ONE THEY HAD, in that case???), but in all honesty I'll be reluctant to buy from them after they dropped Terraria.



Back on topic, I agree the "new game +" idea does explain it pretty well.... as generally on the next continent, you DO the same sort of progression, but it's harder, you kept your enchants from the first time, and there might be some things like new areas and monsters that you didn't get the first time around.   I'll probably use this explanation myself as well.

[chemical_art]

Unlike Terraria, I don't think these devs are going to drop their game like a hot potato after 4 months.

That was pretty shameful of them.

Never played the game, but I must ask?

Did the game deliver what it initially offered to do?

[khadgar]

Not to completely derail the discussion and talk about Terraria, but I don't see a problem with stopping updates. It was a complete game when it came out: the updates were a BONUS. I don't see why it's so horrible to want to do something else with your time as a developer. I think the reason was because everyone pegged it as "a 2d minecraft", and minecraft has said from the beginning that they will release free updates 4 lyf.

Same thing with AVWW, to a lesser extent. If Arcen said tomorrow, "You know what? AVWW just isn't what we want to do anymore," then as disappointing as that would be, it's hardly shameful. It reduces the value of the game, sure, but I don't think it's cheating you of anything, nor is it shameful (unless from the outset they promised a specific number of months of free content updates, or whatnot).

[Misery]

Not to completely derail the discussion and talk about Terraria, but I don't see a problem with stopping updates. It was a complete game when it came out: the updates were a BONUS. I don't see why it's so horrible to want to do something else with your time as a developer. I think the reason was because everyone pegged it as "a 2d minecraft", and minecraft has said from the beginning that they will release free updates 4 lyf.

Same thing with AVWW, to a lesser extent. If Arcen said tomorrow, "You know what? AVWW just isn't what we want to do anymore," then as disappointing as that would be, it's hardly shameful. It reduces the value of the game, sure, but I don't think it's cheating you of anything, nor is it shameful (unless from the outset they promised a specific number of months of free content updates, or whatnot).

Mostly because they went on and on originally about "Yeah!  Continuous updates, that's what we'll do!" (no, really, this was said OFTEN early on)  There actually WERENT very many.   I mean, there were some decent ones, but....  Suffice it to say, it was disappointing.  Dont say it if you are gonna end up not doing it.  When they DID drop it, it was very abrupt, and for some, seeing that the next game was gonna be something similar ANYWAY didn't really help. 

And yeah, I know they obviously never HAD to do any updates at all, but one way or another, it still bothered alot of players.  One of the big things that KEPT alot of early players into the game for awhile WAS the promise of "many updates!  And often!".   There were SO many bad jokes made comparing that idea, to Minecraft and Notch's extremely random and often delayed updates (which is how he was doing them at that time).  The bloody forums for the game, I ended up leaving because people WOULDNT SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT.     And then........ dropped, gone.   Maybe not "shameful", but still..... annoying, at the very least.


Also, the BIG problem with that game for most players was an absolute lack of any replay value whatsoever.  Once you'd gone through and beaten all of the bosses and gotten super duper equipment...... alot of players just lost interest at this point.   Which, no matter how I look at it, is strange, since it's a Minecrafty, sandboxy game, but I'll be honest and say it happened to me, too.    So more updates woulda probably gotten more people back into it.

I dont dislike the devs or anything like that, no no no, but..... while I might be interested in their next game, I'll likely wait AWHILE before buying it, knowing how Terraria abruptly ran out of content after a short time, and knowing that the updates to increase that DID NOT keep coming for very long.

Never played the game, but I must ask?

Did the game deliver what it initially offered to do?

Hmmm.... there might be different answers to that depending on the player.   I thought it was a decent enough game, myself, but.....  others viewpoints may differ.



....anyway I'll stop yapping about this one at this point and let things get back to topic here.

[Huaojozu]

As I have brought up in another thread, I feel like the game does need to end (in a way that it tells the player). First 5 (or other number) continents contain little bits of story with the last one having a final boss. You could even design a new kind of one-time-per-game mission so that the final boss trully feels unique and final. After that, the lackeys of the final boss run away and spread out throughout the world and you get a You Win! message with a simple epilogue. You can then choose to continue your game, hunting down the lackeys as overlords on other continents, thus making the game feel as a traditional game with an infinite post-game rather than a game with no end like now.

[KDR_11k]

The last update to Terraria felt a bit like they were scraping the bottom of the idea barrel already so I'm not sure the game really needed more updates after that. Yes, Terraria is more content-driven than Minecraft but I rarely bother to play MC at all since it just feels so samey.

[omegajasam]

They dropped it when promising more updates (some of which had been mentioned specificaly, and they did so moments after releasing a collectors edition.

Combine the timing, a lackluster update, the number of 'promises' made, the weirdness with one of the Dev team leaving, the lack of communication, and that a lot of people had gotten the game expecting 1-2years of updates (or DLC), with that comment on 'working on anouther games'

At the end of it, you have what looks like a Dev who got board and ditched their community. (With a lot of contrary messages, No time to work on game because of family and working on a new game e.t.c)

I stopped following it at that point. The game got dull quick without new content.

As for this game???

There were comments that perhaps the Valley should exist in regards to sinking landmasses e.t.c. So theres definatly the option for an 'end'.

The problem is no-one wants an end.

I'm sure everyone would like better lore though, or more inter-continental mechanics, or trade or whatever. Which would mean that an end was even /less/ desirable. Thats fine if you ask me.

[Toll]

The win-conditions is what you make of it, the way I see it. You want to defeat the first continent? Well that's your win, then. Want to defeat the first five continents? Then that's another. Want to build every possible building in the settlement? Awesome, do that. Want to explore every region and building 100%? Good luck with that one.

Personally, in my current game (which has admittedly fallen a bit behind as of late), my "win" is to build every single building and reach tier five in all spells possible. Should keep me going for a while...