When do you unlock Enchantments?

[Tagek]

Hi there,

I was wondering what the calculation is for unlocking enchants.
For example, does it work something like this? First enchant : 100 points, second : 200 third : 300 etc?
Was just wondering since it's been a while since my last enchant unlock.

Also, Is there a specific reason they are called enchantments?
I was thinking, since you equip them to your specific bodyparts,
doesn't it make more sense to call them ''enhancements'' instead?

cheers, Tagek

[keith.lamothe]

Each enchant has a point cost (and some extras it can add on if you have the points), so your first enchant comes when you have enough to afford the lowest point cost   There's a random roll on availability for some of them, and some are never given through enchant containers but rather through stash rooms because they'd be too underwhelming to get from a container (i.e. the one that's only emit light).

[BobTheJanitor]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and officially beg for this.

[keith.lamothe]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and officially beg for this.

The challenge is that the game doesn't actually _know_ when it's going to give you the next enchant.  Each time you open a container it tries all the base types again to see if they're cheap enough, and if so picks one at random, and then sees if it can afford any/all of the optional add-ons, etc.

[Terraziel]

The more I try to understand the system the more it strikes me as crazy, or at the very least unnecessary and opaque.

I just don't see why the system isn't just get to a fixed X points and then RNG an enchantment, rather what does the current method add that I am missing?

[keith.lamothe]

The more I try to understand the system the more it strikes me as crazy, or at the very least unnecessary and opaque.

I just don't see why the system isn't just get to a fixed X points and then RNG an enchantment, rather what does the current method add that I am missing?

It lets us have effects that are better than other effects, and cost more points.

[orzelek]

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and officially beg for this.

The challenge is that the game doesn't actually _know_ when it's going to give you the next enchant.  Each time you open a container it tries all the base types again to see if they're cheap enough, and if so picks one at random, and then sees if it can afford any/all of the optional add-ons, etc.

From what I understand you could still show some progress to minimum threshold at which you can get the enchant. It could be a simple percentage saying something like - when this gets to 100% (or exceeds it) your next container should give an enchant.

[Terraziel]

It lets us have effects that are better than other effects, and cost more points.

Surely you can accomplish that without tying the method of acquisition to the method of generation.

[Toll]

Hmm. This means that in general, the enchantments will come in the same order, no matter what you do (excluding enchantments that cost the same amount of points)? Or is there a possibility that you'll get a, say, 200 point enchantment before a 100-point enchantment?

[keith.lamothe]

Hmm. This means that in general, the enchantments will come in the same order, no matter what you do (excluding enchantments that cost the same amount of points)? Or is there a possibility that you'll get a, say, 200 point enchantment before a 100-point enchantment?

There are relatively few distinct cost values, such that generally a lot will become "available" at once.  Also, once an enchant is generated those points are "spent", so you'll have to build back up before you can afford that enchant's "siblings" again.  Also, one thing we haven't mentioned before (iirc) is that it won't even try to gen an enchant until you have at least as many points stored as 1/4 the total points you have spent before.  We could use that threshold as the top of the "progress bar" but there's also not a guaruntee that an enchant will be available at that point cost.

Still, we could probably pull of the progress bar with a bit of trial generations to see how many points it would take to get to one, etc.


As far as other feedback about the opacity of the system... well, generally randomized loot systems are fairly opaque.  I had very little idea how Diablo 2 or Torchlight were giving me loot, or when the next time would be that I would get a green/purple/yellow/etc.  All I knew is that I was really interested in seeing what it would give me next.

Some game systems are actually less fun the more you know about their internal workings

[Toll]

...
Also, one thing we haven't mentioned before (iirc) is that it won't even try to gen an enchant until you have at least as many points stored as 1/4 the total points you have spent before.  We could use that threshold as the top of the "progress bar" but there's also not a guaruntee that an enchant will be available at that point cost.
...

I don't think that has been mentioned before, no, but it does sound like an interesting solution! Makes each enchantment take longer and longer, once you're past that initial threshold (and also allows you to get a 200-point enchantment before a 100-point enchantment, if enough 100-pointers are available). Both pros and cons, of course (especially as more enchantments are added), but at first glance, I really like that one.

[Hyfrydle]

I really like the enchant system at the moment but find it a bit confusing which are better than others. Maybe some kind of colour coding as used in loot collecting rpg's would help with the possibility of really rare stuff we can all brag about. With more and varied enchants this will make the game better and better.

I kept playing last night past my bedtime as I searched for a last enchant before bed so it's making the game much more addictive which can only be a good thing.

[Toll]

Are there any unquantified enchantments other than Emit Light? As far as I've seen, all others have +30% projectile speed, -20% mana drain, +60% jumping etc. To me, that's preferable to showing how "rare" they are; instead of just looking at the colour of an enchant, you judge it by its effects.

[keith.lamothe]

Are there any unquantified enchantments other than Emit Light? As far as I've seen, all others have +30% projectile speed, -20% mana drain, +60% jumping etc. To me, that's preferable to showing how "rare" they are; instead of just looking at the colour of an enchant, you judge it by its effects.

There's immune-to-acid-water, immune-to-falling-damage, and immune-to-windstorm-knockback, for other "boolean" effects.  I don't recall any others currently implemented, off the top of my head.

[x4000]

There's also the minor shadow cloaking thing, and maybe a couple of others.

But more to the point, there's also the question of the random additions.  The added stats for "light emission on something that at core has 30% fire attack bonus" is something that is hard to quantify.  Even something like "+10% attack power" versus "+20% mana regen speed" in addition to a base bonus makes a specific enchant hard to weight: which is considered better, for color coding purposes?  Etc.