Author Topic: Valley 2 Official 1.001-1002 "Mouse Aiming For Those Who Stood And Fought" Relea  (Read 23662 times)

Offline Misery

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Well, I have to apologize here, as I went and looked at the posts in question and true to my nature, could not resist making a response.  Hopefully I didn't make things too much worse there.

But it just bugs me so much when people do that.  I've seen it so many other times, that irritating "entitlement" and the attitude of general jackassery that tends to go with it, and unfortunately, I've a very short fuse.   It wouldnt bug me AS much though if the dolt had actually thought to, you know, TRY the game before making all of those brain-dead complaints.  It's one thing to complain after spending a few hours with a game.  But it's a whole other thing to whine and moan without so much as spending even one second on it, and that just drives me up the wall.



I went ahead and ticked on mouse support, and the game doesn't really feel any easier. It's easier in some ways, harder in others, and it still demands that you think ahead because enemy spells will tear right through yours no matter what. Sometimes I encounter some easy cheese scenarios, but it tends to be a case of "That would have been an annoying jump shot to aim if I didn't turn this on". Just for what it's worth, it didn't really break things as much as I thought it would.

I think it's somewhat dependant on the player as well though.   I gave it a try as well just to test it, and found it dramatically easier in many situations.   I could, for example, leap over an enemy well below me, avoiding it's attacks, while still sending a barrage of extremely accurate shots at it... using just a basic standard straight-shot spell.  This isnt doable at all with normal controls, and is one of the reasons to use more spells than just that sort.  Normally in that situation, in order to achieve that sort of attack, I would leap over and drop a bomb-type spell on them.   But with mouse-control, I dont need the bomb anymore.   Or most other types of spells, for that matter....

Offline Coppermantis

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Holy ****, I read some of the comments and the ignorance is astounding in some of them. You provided a feature that people were asking for and get flamed for it. You gave him the game for free, listened to and implemented ideas from the community throughout the whole beta and after release patched in a feature that many people were asking for and he tells you to "go **** yourself."


This one's golden:

"b) i literally cannot play it (i dont have a gamepad), and further dont WANT to "learn" to play it with one. if i wanted to play with a gamepad, id have a console."

So you don't have a keyboard or mouse either? Plus, his ridiculous sense of entitlement and inflated self-importance are irritating, but I'm going to stay out of that since you guys seem to have it under control now.

I personally still like the keyboard control, but it's nice that you guys are willing to add in the mouse for those who'd like it.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline LaughingThesaurus

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I can understand that.
The thing is (and I'm looking to play to completion now) I've never gotten a bomb spell. I think I've gone 3 mage class levels without getting one in one game. I usually get like, the arc bouncy shots, or the ones that move as you move. The other thing is, if I'm playing a game for real, I can't actually stand the thought of just ignoring tools I have-- even if I don't need them. So, if I'm keeping the mouse control on, I'm liable to still use all of my utility and odd angle spells to as much effect as I can. There's also the fact that I'm not amazingly accurate with mouse aiming all the time... and the caliber system keeps me actually thinking and moving as well. I think in this game more than any other game where you shoot stuff with a mouse, there's actually strategy no matter what. It's just, there isn't as much.

But like, I've been playing Sly 2. Now, you start off with an insta-kill attack for each character. It's hard to use if you're in any kind of alert status (impossible for Sly, difficult for Bentley, encouraged for Murray), but it's there. Seems a bit cheap and simple right? Well, sure, I could go around insta-killing all of the guards, but I have so much more fun when I resort to other trickery... especially the old stealth game trick of running around outside of guard vision to lure them juuuuuust where you want them. That's also why I pickpocket every guard I can before the kill. :D

This message courtesy of 2:00 AM. I'm going to bed. Pester me about things that don't make sense with this in mind.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Well, I have to apologize here, as I went and looked at the posts in question and true to my nature, could not resist making a response.
Hahaha, I haven't seen the comment thread, but this made me think "Oh no.  Misery, what did you do to th-*intercom:Clean Up, Aisle Three.*
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Offline Panopticon

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Meanwhile things are really turning around on the Steam forums. I expected a turnaround eventually but I'm surprised at how fast it's happening. The inertia of the negativity bandwagon isn't putting up as much resistance as I thought it would.

I chalk it up to Valley 2 being such a good game and the amazing patience of Tigersfan.  I mean seriously. Amazing patience.

Anyway I take this as a sign for a healthy and bright future for Valley 2.

editid for speeling
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 01:51:54 pm by Panopticon »

Offline x4000

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That's definitely good news!
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Offline chemical_art

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Meanwhile things are really turning around on the Steam forums. I expected a turnaround eventually but I'm surprised at how fast it's happening. The inertia of the negativity bandwagon isn't putting up as much resistance as I thought it would.

editid for speeling

When you give exactly what 50% of the complaints are about, it shouldn't be that surprising  ;D
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Offline keith.lamothe

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When you give exactly what 50% of the complaints are about, it shouldn't be that surprising  ;D
Yea, we tried that with the art, too.  Hence, Valley2.  Not sure that particular complaint got any less ;)
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Offline chemical_art

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When you give exactly what 50% of the complaints are about, it shouldn't be that surprising  ;D
Yea, we tried that with the art, too.  Hence, Valley2.  Not sure that particular complaint got any less ;)

Key word is exactly.

When people say "we want better art!" there is nothing exact about that. (I don't like it***, I mean more specificly it is OK, but not worth paying for compared to the inhouse art of 1, but whatever)

But mouse control is exact. We want mouse control! You give it. Done.


***Actually the art is improved compared to the first. But the player animations S-U-C-K! To the point it distracts from the overall good graphics. It's a shame one component leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth. It's a shame the enemies, which are much more numerious and have less screen time, flow better then the player I see all the time. Sorry for the tangent, just couldn't hold it in.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 07:31:24 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Hunam

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People scare me...I seriously do not see how Arcen staff is able to wade into these discussions and display such composure.  I mean ya'll make some great games but the seemingly superhuman patience is without comparison.   

Offline LaughingThesaurus

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I keep my gaze focused on the enemies at all times, because if it isn't, then I'll probably end up dead... so the player animations don't bother me really at all.

Offline eRe4s3r

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When you give exactly what 50% of the complaints are about, it shouldn't be that surprising  ;D
Yea, we tried that with the art, too.  Hence, Valley2.  Not sure that particular complaint got any less ;)

That's because the complaining wasn't about art, it was about how the game looked... ;) And ever since I played this -> http://www.darkoutgame.com/ I think even more than before that the game stopped way too early in getting to PRETTY looks. You can see what's possible with 2D sprites.... that is what I hoped AVWW2 would be ;)

##Rant## Except Darkout is buggy as hell and has some serious gameplay design flaws ##Rant## at least it fails pretty.

I keep my gaze focused on the enemies at all times, because if it isn't, then I'll probably end up dead... so the player animations don't bother me really at all.

And yet animation quality (of main characters) is part of what immerses one in the game. If ya don't feel connected to the thing you control, then already the game loses some of it's flair. Some of it's mood and artsy coherence. ^^ Obviously some players don't mind, but a lot others will.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 04:58:02 am by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Misery

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When you give exactly what 50% of the complaints are about, it shouldn't be that surprising  ;D
Yea, we tried that with the art, too.  Hence, Valley2.  Not sure that particular complaint got any less ;)

That's because the complaining wasn't about art, it was about how the game looked... ;) And ever since I played this -> http://www.darkoutgame.com/ I think even more than before that the game stopped way too early in getting to PRETTY looks. You can see what's possible with 2D sprites.... that is what I hoped AVWW2 would be ;)

##Rant## Except Darkout is buggy as hell and has some serious gameplay design flaws ##Rant## at least it fails pretty.

I keep my gaze focused on the enemies at all times, because if it isn't, then I'll probably end up dead... so the player animations don't bother me really at all.

And yet animation quality (of main characters) is part of what immerses one in the game. If ya don't feel connected to the thing you control, then already the game loses some of it's flair. Some of it's mood and artsy coherence. ^^ Obviously some players don't mind, but a lot others will.


All still very subjective though.

I played a bit of Darkout myself, and honestly, I wasnt impressed by the visuals at all.  Some of the coloring was kinda nice, but for the most part everything just looked really "off" to me with that game.   didn't care for the overall look of it at all.   Wasnt what stopped me from playing it more, what stopped me was all the bugs and gameplay issues and such.  But still.



Though I do agree with the points brought up about the character animations;  some of that in Valley 2 was pretty wonky.   Heck, you can crouch and fire at the same time, and your hitbox will become the appropriate size for this.... but your guy will still remain standing when you do this!  I thought it was a glitch at first.

Offline Jerebaldo1

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Loving the trickle of new posters here; even Valley 1 is getting more love!

Offline eRe4s3r

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@Misery

Well I was mainly talking about the technical features.. like fog + smooth light volumes. ^^ And the way backgrounds in caves mixed with the assorted flowers and glows looked... you can't tell me that wasn't nice to look at in Darkout ;) Just think as a 2D game the game (AVWW) lacks some features that are required nowadays. Like color mapping and light sources that interact with fog... ;p

But yes, apart that the graphical style is of course subjective, the feature comparison is objective at least.
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