Author Topic: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!  (Read 6706 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 10:15:18 am »
And more:

* The various status-affecting spells, largely called "flying fist" of some sort, now also have a High caliber.  These are thus the sole ranged, non-ammo-based spells with that sort of a caliber.
** This makes them a lot more interesting tactically in general, as well as more effective at actually inflicting status impediments on enemies.

* The "mass" spells of the player now have a normal caliber instead of low -- this makes them more useful and distinct when set next to their burst counterparts.
** These are slow enough, and wind up just canceling out enemy spells rather than actually traveling through them to damage the enemy, that this should be reasonably balanced.

* Improved potion shot, which has long been one of the lamest early spells, to now have normal caliber instead of low.

* The "launch" and "heave" spell projectiles that the player has are now all Normal caliber, rather than low.  This really does feel more appropriate for them.

* The time to live on the spell mines and bombs (both player and enemy) have been reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2013, 10:19:28 am »
Out of curiosity. Is slowing an enemy even useful once you're in Melee range?  I like the idea of debuffing enemies, but to me it honestly feels weird to have them on Melee attacks which I more often associate with high damage/finishing moves.

The change to caliber perks sounds good. The concentration buff seems a bit highish to me though.

Also sounds like this will compund the issue of blast spells being super powered, as wih a buffed up caliber it'll be a super shield against normal enemies.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 10:21:22 am »
They aren't melee attacks, they're ranged.

In terms of blast spells being a super shield against enemies, sure, why not -- they basically one-hit-kill regular enemies in general.  If you're using them to block shots, you're not using them to kill enemies (mostly).  Either way, you're severely hampered by available ammo on those.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 10:22:15 am »
Quote
* The time to live on the spell mines and bombs (both player and enemy) have been reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5.

I actually don't think I'm going to like this alteration. It changes the mines from requiring skill, tactics, and timing to just being another way to pump out extra DPS.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 10:24:46 am »
One and a half seconds is still a pretty long time.  I agree that 3 seconds is too long; I hadn't realized how much that was bothering me until he brought it up.  If you don't like 1.5 seconds (which is the floor of as low as I feel like what I'd be willing to go), what is your value you think is better?
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Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 10:30:12 am »
Ahh. I hadn't played since they were changed. Thought it was still Melee with a debuff. My bad, those sound pretty interesting now, especially for potential support roles in multiplayer.

Edit:  I missed something. Were blast spells changed to use ammo? I'm thinking of the trishot that was the primary on a few tier 3 Mage classes.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 10:32:29 am by madcow »

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 10:32:50 am »
One and a half seconds is still a pretty long time.  I agree that 3 seconds is too long; I hadn't realized how much that was bothering me until he brought it up.  If you don't like 1.5 seconds (which is the floor of as low as I feel like what I'd be willing to go), what is your value you think is better?

I'd probably need to test it in action to make a good call really.  It might be possible that I'd just gotten used to the 3 second timing a little too much. I'll test the next version and if it seems off, post more feedback then.

Offline Mick

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 10:34:36 am »
I think I'm going to like the 1.5 second change. I noticed the change log says it will apply to enemies too, which I think is great.

Those eyeball things that dump bombs on the ground always seemed so nonthreatening to me because their bombs are so far behind me by the time they go off. With a shorter fuse, I'll have to actually be more careful around them.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 10:36:40 am »
All sounds good on the timing of bombs.  I'll have a new release out within an hour or so, so you can test pretty soon if you're not at work or something. :)

Edit:  I missed something. Were blast spells changed to use ammo? I'm thinking of the trishot that was the primary on a few tier 3 Mage classes.

Oh, the blast spells -- sorry.  Those are still low caliber shots, so shouldn't be an issue.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 10:40:36 am »
I was thinking that once you load up on caliber perks, it fires fast enough that it could easily 2 or 3 shot enemy fire before it reaches you.

Either giving it no caliber or lowering the fire rate with a proportional damage increase could solve that. I personally prefer the shotgun feel of the latter ;)

Offline Mick

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 10:41:10 am »
if you're not at work or something. :)


If only. :(

Speaking of which, should probably get back to it.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2013, 10:44:02 am »
I was thinking that once you load up on caliber perks, it fires fast enough that it could easily 2 or 3 shot enemy fire before it reaches you.

Either giving it no caliber or lowering the fire rate with a proportional damage increase could solve that. I personally prefer the shotgun feel of the latter ;)

The fire rate on those is pretty well identical to any other straight-shot spell, though; you could say the same about ember shot and so forth, too.

Though it's a good point that making these more of a shotgun-style spell might be interesting, true.  I'm not sure if changes are really warranted here, though; let's give it a go as it is before we make changes to this one based on speculation.  I could see it either way.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2013, 10:50:41 am »
I guess my issue is its so easy to hit with. You can move forward and fire and you'll hit things comin in at an angle or overhead without needing to aim. If you jump while shooting forward (or just occassionally angle up) you can really clean house without needing to aim, whereas the straight shot spells require more lining up the shot.

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2013, 10:51:17 am »
Quote
I'll have a new release out within an hour or so, so you can test pretty soon if you're not at work or something.

Fortunately, I make my own work schedule. Chipping in helping provide feedback on this game actually proves as a nice distraction from my schedule throughout the day/night. Looking forward to testing it.

Offline Misery

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .808 "The Sound Of Violence" Released!
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2013, 10:55:04 am »
One and a half seconds is still a pretty long time.  I agree that 3 seconds is too long; I hadn't realized how much that was bothering me until he brought it up.  If you don't like 1.5 seconds (which is the floor of as low as I feel like what I'd be willing to go), what is your value you think is better?

The reduced seconds change seems a bit unnecessary to me as well.    Now, granted, the bombs arent the easiest thing to learn to use as they are, but.....  they're powerful as heck.  I was already using them on basically everything that so much as dared to exist (this includes even things like scouts).   The timing of them seemed a good thing considering the power of them.   I dont think it's too bad of an idea to have some spells that are pretty darn tough to use, but are rewarding once you get them.   There actually arent all that many of that sort.... there's alot of situational ones, but most arent hard to actually use once you find the situation that calls for them.   The three seconds can seem like alot, but I find that there are many situations where this will actually take out enemies both faster AND safer than other attacks, particularly some of the loopier, more dangerous foes.   

EDIT:  It also occurs to me that in some situations this might make them HARDER to use, because there's less time in between when you drop them, and when the enemy must hit the explosion radius, which means getting even closer to many foes.


It's not THAT big of a deal either way though, but I figured I'd weigh in with some input anyway.   Though, I *definitely* dont think that enemies like the eyeballs need the bombs exploding faster;  I dunno how those guys are on lower difficulties, but even with reduced health, they're a very dangerous foe on Hero already as is (though appropriate for the Crag areas, which seem well-balanced now).


As for the caliber bit, I probably shoulda mentioned that "meh" sorta meant "neutral".   I dont think the change had much negative impact on the game.....  it just seemed kinda pointless to me.   Granted, having things like rapid-fire spells that always break lots of enemy shots is an obviously broken thing, but still.    Not a BAD change, it's just sorta..... there.   It happened, is the best I can say about it, hah.

The perks and the bonuses from the concentration system though really did seem entirely useless however.   You could always have the concentration system do something else entirely rather than the caliber thing (though obviously keeping the damage increase, which works just fine).   For instance, increasing the range of shots a bit, or whatever.   Right now it kinda seems like it's displaying a stat that just has no meaning (at least most of the time), and it always bugs me when a game does that.   .....not to mention that a percentage boost to "low" or "normal" is confusing.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 10:57:10 am by Misery »