Author Topic: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!  (Read 4196 times)

Offline Billick

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 10:05:29 am »
Was the frequency of windmills reduced?  I didn't find one until the 12th turn in the game I started yesterday.  Or did I just get unlucky with scouting?

Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 10:11:47 am »
Was the frequency of windmills reduced?  I didn't find one until the 12th turn in the game I started yesterday.  Or did I just get unlucky with scouting?

They were changed so that they are less likely to be in the center of the map with the idea of scattering them out.  Probably means they'll be harder to find early on.  I've not played since that patch. This weekend I'll put some quality time in though.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 10:12:27 am »
Just a quick note, please fix the tutorial text still saying that you can't fire at an angle. Not a big issue for me, but I'm seeing Let's Players playing the game and they aren't aware that they can shoot at an angle. It's gives them a little bit of a bad impression on the game.

Thanks, I definitely will do that today; keeps slipping my mind.
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Offline MouldyK

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 10:21:50 am »
Also, i'm sure somewhere the guy mentions that as you capture more wind places, the overlord can move more spaces. Atleast I believe I saw soemthing like that.

Might need to be changed to say he can move 3 spaces no matter what.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 10:35:51 am »
Also, i'm sure somewhere the guy mentions that as you capture more wind places, the overlord can move more spaces. Atleast I believe I saw soemthing like that.

Might need to be changed to say he can move 3 spaces no matter what.
I did change the place I saw that during implementation, but perhaps there is another place.  Do you know the actual context (so I can search for it)?
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Offline MouldyK

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2013, 10:57:55 am »
Also, i'm sure somewhere the guy mentions that as you capture more wind places, the overlord can move more spaces. Atleast I believe I saw soemthing like that.

Might need to be changed to say he can move 3 spaces no matter what.
I did change the place I saw that during implementation, but perhaps there is another place.  Do you know the actual context (so I can search for it)?

-Will check for you quickly-

BTW guys, loving the "Completely Redesigned Henchman Boss Fights" part i've read so far. :D

Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 11:15:29 am »
I'm a little worried about the amount of variety that'll be needed to keep multistage boss battles interesting given how frequently they happen.

Offline MouldyK

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 11:34:33 am »
Okay, so I think the one I saw about the 3 movemtn was because I exited game right at that point or near it, so mixed signals I guess. :/

But I managed to find a slice I could not progress at due to not beign able to jump, so have that instead. :P



If you want, I can mantis that up.

I'm a little worried about the amount of variety that'll be needed to keep multistage boss battles interesting given how frequently they happen.

ALOT of slices to be made or just reduce the encounters to Level Up Towers Only. Or maybe chance it so they appear less in normal places.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:36:06 am by MouldyK »

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 11:38:20 am »
Mouldy, do you have a save of you in that spot?

I need a save in order to find/fix that slice.

Offline madcow

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 11:40:59 am »
I was thinking abou enemy boss behavior/spell patterns but splices is a good concern too now that you mention it. I hope we get some multilevel arenas. And some really interesting boss behaviors, boss battles in metroidvania games tend to be epic and what I remember the most in them.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 11:45:06 am »
-Will check for you quickly-
I just saw one in the beginning-of-turn-5 text interjection and patched it up.
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Offline MouldyK

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 11:54:12 am »
Tigersfan: Rar File for you. It is Oceon Shallows at (2, -1)

I was thinking abou enemy boss behavior/spell patterns but splices is a good concern too now that you mention it. I hope we get some multilevel arenas. And some really interesting boss behaviors, boss battles in metroidvania games tend to be epic and what I remember the most in them.

Yes! Varied rooms and varied attacks can do a great deal towards making the battles seem more interesting. Maybe them adopting our tier spells to show they are just like we are. :D

Keith: Clealy didn't look long enough, or passed it. But that was the one I probably saw.

Offline x4000

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 08:14:47 pm »
Misery, I can't duplicate the thing with it not switching between day and night when it changes turns.  Are you still seeing that?  Is anyone else seeing that?

I was thinking abou enemy boss behavior/spell patterns but splices is a good concern too now that you mention it. I hope we get some multilevel arenas. And some really interesting boss behaviors, boss battles in metroidvania games tend to be epic and what I remember the most in them.

They're just never going to be a centerpiece of this game, I'm afraid.  I've made things more varied, but I've focused on making things more in line with the rest of the game just on hyperdrive.  Thinking about games like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, that's a game that had a lot of great core mechanics, and what they did for the final level was pit you against more of those core mechanics in a really interesting way. 

Or thinking about recent Mario games, Super Mario 3D Land had a final boss fight where Bowser is chasing you and things are crumbling and you're running for your life.  It's a lot more interesting than the Bowser boss fights in Mario Galaxy, for instance, which strayed into completely different mechanics from the rest of the game and were shallow and repetitive for it.  Same with Mario 64, really.

Metroid games are kind of a different beast, and the boss fights are built in as a really core mechanic.  That requires a really intense amount of AI and design for a specific boss fight, however, and I think we can all agree that playing the same 6ish boss fights from Super Metroid over and over again wouldn't be terribly compelling.  They are epic in the context of that game because each only happens once, period. 

But with a procedural game like we have here, especially one that encourages serial playthroughs because of the strategic component, that's just not something that fits with the design -- having hugely involved battles on the level of Super Metroid would either lead to huge amounts of repetition of really specific stuff (ugh), or it would lead to an exponential increase in development costs due to us having to spend ridiculous amounts of more time to create dozens or hundreds of boss battles where the entire Super Metroid staff at Nintendo just had six.

All in all, what that really means is that the the boss fights need to overall stay out of the way; they are now a lot less frequent than they were in prior versions, for one thing.  And for another, they are mixing the general game mechanics (rooms with other enemies in them) up with the bosses themselves to create a combinatorial effect.  It helps bring some of the feel of the tactics of the combat of the rest of the game to the boss fights, while not making them too overwrought or lengthy.

Based on my playtesting I think that this is enormously more successful than the past boss fights were, but we'll see where there is room for improvement as more people get their hands on it.

Goodness, that was quite an explanation -- I think this will have to go in my release notes!
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 08:29:06 pm »
Tigersfan: Rar File for you. It is Oceon Shallows at (2, -1)

Thanks! I got that one fixed!

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Valley 2 Beta .718 "Sightlines" Released!
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 08:56:52 pm »
Quote
Misery, I can't duplicate the thing with it not switching between day and night when it changes turns.  Are you still seeing that?  Is anyone else seeing that?

Nope, not seeing that so far.